What are your feelings about scrapping or keeping the current rank system? It has come to my attention that some members feel it may be intimidating to newer collectors who join the forum. Honestly, I can totally agree with this concern. There are some forums I have joined where I feel I'm completely out of my league for somewhat similar reasons. I want everyone to feel welcome so I just need some opinions on this and anything else you think needs attention. I have a few rare days off so I want to do some maintenance.

I am in favour of scraping it. It really doesn't mean much. The number of posts is not reflective of the quality or content of said posts.

I am of the same mind set. I am not certain what the ranking system is designed to do. Some forums I have been a member of the rank system was skewed by one line posts like "cool" "Nest" "interesting" things like that.

As for being intimidated by it, not really, although on two forums, I am a little intimidated by the sheer knowledge of the people. LMAO

Now if I may be excused, I have to get off the internet, and get my butt in gear and get ready for the Remembrance Ceremony.

your lucky you get to go the ceremonies...I'm just heading out to work again. Days off don't start until tomorrow for me.

Just returned a little while ago from the National Cenotaph here in Ottawa. Again I had the honour of laying the Wreath on behalf of the Irish Regiment of Canada Veterans Association. Unfortunately, I was alone this year representing the Association. My long term veteran friend from the Regiment was under the weather.

BUT this is the first year I was in possession of the Memorial Cross named to my uncle. I was wearing it, however, hidden under my Regimental Association dress.

I too have voted in favour of abandoning it. It just makes people go out and post nonsense things such as 'cool' or 'nice', just to get to a higher rank. Secondly, as has been said before, someone's rank is not an indication of his expertise at all.

I was the one who put a vote in the "What's a rank" category. Not because i don't know, just because I don't really care either way. I never really took any notice of them, until this topic came up.

They are somewhat meaningless, though.

Rob

Hi Cliff, As a surviving relative of your uncle, you have the right to wear the Memorial Cross. Eg openly.

Got home early tonight so I fiddled around a bit. Got rid of the ranks and images of such. Set a "new member" to 25 posts before becoming a "member". Makes things much simpler.

What do you think?

That's a good change. Makes sense.

Hi Dale

Works for me.....but then again I was only a Corporal!! The best rank!!!!:lol:

Bill

Careful what you say to Cliff. Let's be clear here. The Mem Cross is in the National Honours System. If he was issued it as a survivor then fine, he can wear it but if it was not issued to him specifically, he is in breach of Article 419 of the criminal code.

...WEARING

Any legal recipient may wear the Memorial Cross at any time they deem appropriate. It is worn on the left breast, pinned above any medals the recipient may have been awarded. It should be noted that as medals may only be worn by their original recipient, the medals of a deceased person shall, under no circumstances, be worn by a next of kin or any other person.

A member of the Canadian Forces who is the legal recipient of the Memorial Cross may wear the Cross on the service dress jacket with Nos. 1, 1A and 3 orders of dress. The Cross is worn 2 cm above the left breast pocket or 2 cm above any ribbons, medals or specialist badge the person may be entitled to wear. The Cross may have to be offset in order not to be obscured by the lapel of the jacket....

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Would anyone hassle him over it? I doubt it. I would if he wore it whilst in his Military uniform but unlikely anyone would say anything if he were in civilian attire or his Assoc rig.

Cliff

Well done representing your Regt in Ottawa. I've only ever managed to go there once (during a crse in St Jean)as all other Nov 11 parades during my career have been...........directed locations.

As a side note, My bosses wife was 2Bn Irish.

regards
Darrell

Hi Darrel, I am not sure where you are quoting the provisions from? Is that from CF regulations?
Here is the current Section 419 of the Criminal Code of Canada:
Unlawful use of military uniforms or certificates
419. Every one who without lawful authority, the proof of which lies on him,
(a) wears a uniform of the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force or a uniform that is so similar to the uniform of any of those forces that it is likely to be mistaken therefor,
(b) wears a distinctive mark relating to wounds received or service performed in war, or a military medal, ribbon, badge, chevron or any decoration or order that is awarded for war services, or any imitation thereof, or any mark or device or thing that is likely to be mistaken for any such mark, medal, ribbon, badge, chevron, decoration or order,
(c) has in his possession a certificate of discharge, certificate of release, statement of service or identity card from the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force that has not been issued to and does not belong to him, or
(d) has in his possession a commission or warrant or a certificate of discharge, certificate of release, statement of service or identity card, issued to an officer or a person in or who has been in the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force, that contains any alteration that is not verified by the initials of the officer who issued it, or by the initials of an officer thereto lawfully authorized,
is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
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Hi Bill

Sorry I wasn't more clear but the quote I gave above is in the description of the Memorial Cross online with the Directorate of Honours and Recognition (I gave the intra-net link instead of the internet one!Oopps)

Try here:

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Your posting of the relevant CCof C article is spot on. Note that sub para c) says "...or a military medal, ribbon, badge, chevron or any decoration or order that is awarded for war services,..."

That's a Memorial Cross as it is in our Honours System.

Dress Regs for the CF would not have anything except the correct wearing. I will have a look through regs when I get a chance but I think between the "status" of the Mem Cross and the CC of C article; one could not legally wear a relatives Mem Cross if it was not specifically awarded to that person. Don't get me wrong, i wouldn't give anyone grief over doing so (unless they were one of my soldiers) and believe personally that the Criminal Code article should not exist but just because you don't like a Law doesn't give you the go-ahead to ignore it.

Hope that made sense.

rergards
Darrell


*Edit

I had a look online at A-AD-265-000/AG-001 Canadian Forces Dress Instruction and Chapt 4 Para 5 says:

Although honour insignia may be
bequeathed or given to a relative or friend (for
Canadian orders, with the concurrence of the
Order), only honours actually awarded to the
individual concerned may be worn, regardless of
the occasion.

Pretty clear that if Cliff is still serving the CF in any uniformed capacity then he is subject to this Instr.

Hello Darrell, I am still a little puzzled. The CF regulations do not apply to civilians. I can see it applied to someone in uniform, but I am at a loss to see how the jurisdiction of the CF can be extended to a civilian.
The Memorial Cross is under the Directorate of Honours and Recognition or the Veterans Affairs, depending on time of death. Equally, I am not sure how the CC of C is applicable. The Cross is not "awarded" but is "granted" as a "memento". In most cases those the Cross is granted to are civilians. Reference to S419,(c). If a relative other than those named in the granting, or for that matter, if I was to take a Mem Cross from my collection and wear it to honour the memory of a fallen service man or woman, there are some serious implications and unintended consequences. I am going to do some further research on this question.

Hi Bill

Obviously CF regs don't apply to a civilian. I'm pretty sure that is not the case with Cliff. And point taken about the Mem Cross being a momento.

However I just spoke with DH&R (1-877-741-8332)and VAC Honours and Awards Section (1-877-995-5003) and they both state that no matter what the Memorial Cross is called (Memento, decoration, medal or whatever), the fact that it falls under the Canadian Honours System, makes it so that the CC of C applies to civilians (and both CC of C and Regulations for serving members)in that it cannot be worn by any other than the recipient. They did acknowledge that the likelyhood of legal action taken against anyone who does wear an honour they themselves have not earned is small. Both also encouraged displaying it otherwise than wearing it (carried in a frame etc).

Pretty clear and from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

regards
Darrell