Leather Bandolier - questions

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    MenOfTheNorth
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    Leather Bandolier - questions

    Post by MenOfTheNorth on Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:46 pm

    I was at a local arms show recently and managed to scoop the leather bandolier pictured. It is Canadian C-broad arrow marked and in what I take to be excellent condition. I am hoping members here can enhance/correct my understanding of the markings.





    Regrettably, my photo efforts only show part of the markings, so here they are, stacked in the order they appear on the bandolier.

    13A RCA - with the "A" a smaller size and struck at an angle (and it is an "R" not a "B" - an elaborate serif R

    12190

    12012 overstruck a different number (indecipherable)

    7C RCA - again the letter following the number "C" is smaller than the rest of the text

    The RCA would be the Royal Canadian Artillery, correct? If right, that's where my knowledge ends. Can someone educate me as to the meanings of the other numbers?

    I am largely unfamiliar with evolution in such gear, and there is no date stamped into the piece, but there is what appears to be a maker's mark. Tough to make out against the leather but, possibly "Speigings"
    "1031 Bleury" (Montreal?)

    ?? Any sense of date?



    Thanks in advance.

    RossT
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    Re: Leather Bandolier - questions

    Post by RossT on Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:58 am

    G'day MOTN
    Nothing I can really help you with that you don't already know. This is British Pattern 1903 for use by all arms equipped with the rifle other than Cavalry & Mounted Infantry. During WW1 this was standard kit throughout the Commonwealth for all arms with the rifle other than infantry, so the main users were artillery, engineers and service corps.

    With what looks like a maker's mark and an arrow C below it, it looks Canadian made (or atleast Canadian owned) which would imply latter in the war '16 onwards but this is outside my comfort zone. The small narrow stamp is probably a town name rather than a date and name. Dates are usually after a name or on a seperate line.

    Regards the issue stamps, apart from the obvious RCA, (yes that must be R' C' Artillery). I cannot help you. My experience is mostly with Australian issued examples of these and these will be marked up to "Field Artillery Brigades" (not batteries) eg "7FAB AFA". With 2 or 3 FAB attached to a division and treated as a semi-mobile unit which will be detached to assist other Divisions for short durations, as necessary. I would expect that the 13A and 7C stamps are similar unit ownership stamps at an artillery brigade level (ie "A battery 13th Field Artillery Brigade CEF"). Why the old unit ownership stamp is not struck out - I do not understand. The serial numbers, I would expect these to be a Q-store record number rather than a soldier's individual number. That doesn't mean that they are not the soldier's number but I would consider this unlikely. Again why the old number is not struck out, again seems odd.
    I hope others can be more helpful.
    Best regards
    Ross T

    PS regards date of manufacture, although this equipment remained in limited use up through WW2, examples of the bandoliers manufactured after WW1 are unusual.

    1937 to 1942 manufactured P03 belts, bayonet frogs & water bottle carriers are quite common but not the bandoliers, belt ammo pouches or messtin covers and I have never seen a post-WW1 P03 haversack or greatcoat carrier.

    When the leather for P03 is WW2 manufactured, the colour is usually a bit more orange than the WW1 dated ones(when showing original colour) of course both go dark brown with excess wear and saddle soaps and black if treated with neatsfoot oil.

    MenOfTheNorth
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    Re: Leather Bandolier - questions

    Post by MenOfTheNorth on Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:10 pm

    Thanks RossT.

    That has moved the bar a bit on this, and I appreciate it. I have examined the "Speigings" stamp quite closely and while I can't make out that bit, the "1031 Bleury" is quite clear. No date, though. Here's a closer look.

    .

    tsprig
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    Re: Leather Bandolier - questions

    Post by tsprig on Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:42 am

    Hi, I just came across this item while searching on information regarding my relative who owned this. The name is Sprigings that is stamped on it and the address is in Montreal. I have another item of his as well from WWII. I can send you more details regarding him and his unit if you are interested.

    MenOfTheNorth
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    Re: Leather Bandolier - questions

    Post by MenOfTheNorth on Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:21 am

    Thanks tsprig. I am interested. I'll send you a private message.

    Jonhno
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    Re: Leather Bandolier - questions

    Post by Jonhno on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:35 am

    thats interesting what was tsprig able to tell you

    MenOfTheNorth
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    Re: Leather Bandolier - questions

    Post by MenOfTheNorth on Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:56 pm

    Hopefully, tsprig will jump in directly, but it appears based on that input that the "Sprigings" stamp may be a personal stamp applied by the soldier in question, rather than a manufacturers stamp. We're still in conversation.

    Jonhno
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    Re: Leather Bandolier - questions

    Post by Jonhno on Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:41 pm

    interesting, have to let us know the outcome, small world eh

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