HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

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    22Coy
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    HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by 22Coy on Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:40 am

    I would appreciate any identification and possible value of theses 2 BDs.  Thank you

    Sorry, Im having problems uploading images.  The images can also be found on the warrelics forum, under the Western Allies section. The title of my thread in that section is Canada WWII BDs: Help Please!

    thank you!


    Last edited by pylon1357 on Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : amended the topic to show merge.)

    Infanteer
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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by Infanteer on Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:07 am

    Who are you? I understand that you are in a rush for answers but to suddenly appear on a new forum without at least introductions can be a bit off putting to some of the members. And no offence, but I'm on this forum and am not interested in having to go to a forum that I don't use in order to see photos. Posting photos here is not difficult once you learn the steps. I hope you find the info you're looking for.

    Please don't take my reply as hostile, these are simply some observations and opinions that hopefully encourage some better online etiquette.

    edstorey
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    Please Identify and Eveluate!!!

    Post by edstorey on Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:46 pm

    Infanteer certainly more polite than I am.   Talk about rude, the first post consists of please identify and tell me how much they are worth.   Oh and it is followed with an I cannot be bothered to post some photos so please go to this other website.   What a joke!   Two words come to mind. Oh how I hate to edit posts, but in this case, I have no choice

    Oh and please, now offense intended.

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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by mk1rceme on Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:28 pm

    Here is a pic uploading tutorial for you. The pic host is sketchy at times, but it is easy to catch on. Practice in the test section til you get it figured out.

    http://www.cdnmilitarycollectors.com/t418-guide-posting-pictures


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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by 22Coy on Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:58 am

    Hello, no need to be so hostile and serious. All forums I have been on are welcoming and very helpful. I have a right not to introduce myself and disclose any information about my interests etc. My intentions are clear, I have 2 BDs, I would like to get information about them and possibly their value. I tried to post photos on your forum, the copy/paste option which you mentioned is not common on other forums, hence, I opted to link my thread to the photos on a different forum. I am even surprised that this was a problem, and that someone was offended for seeing a link to another forum. As a collector, I would be happy to explore another forum and to exchange information with as many fellow enthusiasts as possible.
    I was polite in my request, thanking everyone in advance, but I guess bickering is more important on this forum than history/artifact talk.

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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by 22Coy on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:04 am

    edstorey wrote:Infanteer certainly more polite than I am.   Talk about rude, the first post consists of please identify and tell me how much they are worth.   Oh and it is followed with an I cannot be bothered to post some photos so please go to this other website.   What a joke!   Two words come to mind....

    Oh and please, now offense intended.
    Speaking of etiquette! You probably agreed to a Forum Agreement when signing onto this forum.  Is this what moderators tolerate: For a member to tell the other to.....


    Last edited by pylon1357 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : edited for content not tolerated)

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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by pylon1357 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:21 am

    I think I better start reading every post as they come up. I need to think about this a bit before PMing the original poster. So if you guys have any advice, lets hear it. I know Ed can be hard handed but this is a little much even for him. I do understand the frustration on both sides over this one.

    I for one tried to follow through on the links, but there are no links. I had to try to route may through the web to find them. For a fellow asking for help, he sure didnt make it easy for his "helpers" to find. I gave up.


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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by jholl72 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:40 pm

    22Coy, whoever you are, most members here have spent many years studying this stuff. Some resent newbies(and you are to this forum at least) coming on here with no introductions, no how do you do's or contributing in anyway but expecting others to feed you info that they took the time to learn on their own. Combine that with the lack of effort to even post pics, you expect them to do the extra work to find your pics to give you answers.
    If you want help from others you should put in the effort to make it easy for them and at a minimum introduce yourself. Its the polite thing to do when expecting others to help you. You are not obligated to do so and you see the results of that. No one is asking for your full name and address, but a first name and a hello would be nice.
    Having said that, Ed has made some valid points but his choice of words is not appropriate.


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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by pylon1357 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:58 pm

    Ok, I have put this topic back into the main forums again. I had removed it until I thought about things, good or bad, Here are my thoughts.....

    If you introduce yourself, people may be more forthcoming with answers. You are correct, there is no law set out that you must do so, however I would think it would the prudent thing to do.

    You post an out of the blue, request for help, no photos (yes our system of posting photos is a bit wonky, but easy enough) not asking for help in posting photos. Just asking us to go find it on another forum.

    I tried to chase down the topic in the forum you directed us to in your initial post. However, I have never heard of the above forum. Am I expected to do a google search to find the forum, then search said forum to look at photos you posted there?? Really?? Are you serious.

    I am the Mod in this section and if you have a problem with a posted reply, why not report the post so the Mod can deal with it. Sometimes I miss things, as in this case. I find it unacceptable for any member to tell another to **** ***. I do take offence at your insinuation that 'we' the moderating team tolerate this type of behavior.

    If you care to reply to this post great. If you need help posting photos, drop me a line, I will help you out. We are not a bunch of cads here at CMF, many are quite knowledgeable in our respective fields of study and collecting.


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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by George G on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:31 pm

    I too have been subject to aggressive behaviour on this forum.

    Hazing or bullying is not a virtue.

    If you don't like a post, report it to the moderator.

    Be welcoming. New members can contribute a lot if you let them

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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by jholl72 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:43 pm

    Hi George,
    You are absolutely right new members can contribute a lot to the forum and we certainly encourage them to post.
    These guys are some of the most knowledgable in the hobby and are certainly willing and have shared the knowledge many times before. They only wish for people to be courteous and ask nicely and do some research before hand.
    Has the behaviour been aggressive, in some cases yes, but certainly not hazing or bullying.


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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by Infanteer on Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:32 am

    Double post...


    Last edited by Infanteer on Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:25 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Double post)

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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by Infanteer on Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:35 am

    22Coy wrote:thanking everyone in advance, =
    Thanks for everywhere else you went for free, uninhibited information with no time or effort of your own invested?!!!!!

    Thanks in advance for what???? Thanks for doing everything for me?????

    Thanks for allowing me to get information with absolutely no effort on my part?????[/quote]

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    Follow-up to the locked discussion

    Post by servicepub on Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:47 am

    I had hoped to post my comments on the BD ID but found it locked. I was surprised at this as I don't believe the comments were all that inflammatory and were no worse than you would get around the bar at an MCCofC convention.

    At the risk of having this thread locked also, I am nonetheless going to hit 'send'.


    I am probably one of the most helpful guys around. If I know the answer I will gladly provide it. In fact, through Service Publications, I have made it a second job to disseminate accurate information on Canadian militaria.
    However, even I had a problem with the approach taken here. I would expect the courtesy of a name at the very least. For all I care your name could be Bob and you could introduce yourself as Bill if privacy is a concern - we aren't going to run a police or credit check on you.
    When asked to identify an item I also expect that images or descriptions be provided. Posting a picture is not rocket science - even if this forum differs from others it can be (and is) done regularly.
    I get really ticked off when the very first post, by a stranger, is on value. This is a collector's forum not a dealer's clearing house. We are all concerned about the costs of our investments but this is not the primary concern to a collector.
    When you seek information from me that has taken over 40 years to obtain, I think you should also provide a bit of background on what you have already researched on your own, and that doesn't mean that you have asked on other fora. It means that you have done 'some' research (looked in a book, checked out e-bay or other auction prices realized, went to a show and sought dealer oinions..)
    I get at least one e-mail per week from total strangers asking me to ID or evaluate something. The majority of these don't introduce themselves, don't identify how they found me, don't as 'please' and the few times I answered (years ago) I never even got the courtesy of a thank you or 'are you interested'. I now delegate these e-mails to the 'delete' box without replying.
    Some comments here raise the 'tone' used by Ed. I have known Ed for too many years. He is the same in person as he is on the forum - straightforward, honest and doesn't tolerate fools. I actually like his frank replies as he often says what I am thinking. Ed has done far more for our community in sharing his knowledge than 1,000 newbie posts asking for information.
    My tuppence worth.
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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by pylon1357 on Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:04 pm

    Clive, your points are well taken, and I agree with what you have said. I get similar emails through my website all the time. Usually people are asking what their relative did during the war, where was he wounded, or even better, what did the Regiment do during WWII and where were they.

    I usually direct them to the section of the site that will answer their questions. I rarely if ever hear back from them.

    We are looking into these issues on the forum. I have unlocked and merged this topic with the original.

    I do not want to open this up to a full on bitchfest, but certainly it is a concern to us all. If it turns this way, I will lock it myself.

    I have no idea of the background of the original poster. I do not know if he is a serious collector, a dealer, or a fellow who simply fell into a couple of tunics. In researching and learning about our items, we have all asked questions. Not in the manner in which this one was asked, but we ask just the same.

    I will express more thoughts on this later if required.


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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by pylon1357 on Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:35 pm

    I think we can all agree this topic has started to degenerate, pretty much from the original topic, but I think it is important to keep these lines of communication open.

    Just a friendly reminder to any replies. KEEP ALL REPLIES CIVIL, and RESPECTFUL.


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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by 22Coy on Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:37 pm

    Gentlemen, I would like to get beyond this rough start.  I did not mean to offend anyone.  To this end, I do think that the reactions to my post did not have to be as hostile as some of them were.  My intentions were (and still are) to be respectful.

    In my experience, anyone who is interested in militaria, whether an anonymous newbie (who may well be just be some kid who got his grandfather’s uniform) is enough reason to communicate and propagate this wonderful hobby, and not scare anyone away.  

    By way of introduction:   I am not a Canadian militaria collector, I mostly collect helmets.   I received the two BD’s that I was inquiring about, hoping to get a better idea of what I have (both were stored in a wooden trunk in a garage for - according to the owner - over 50-60 years).  I did in fact try to do some background research on them, which is how I came to this forum.  I am not sure what any of the cloth patches mean, my guess is the crossed rifles are for marksmanship.  The coloured octagon badge could be a regimental or divisional patch (again, not sure)  Thanks to the MOD’s help I got a hand at posting photos, so if anyone is still interested and able to share insights about the BDs, I would be grateful.  No hard feelings (at least not from my end).







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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by mk1rceme on Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:47 pm

    The octogon patch is for the Pacific Force that was raised in 1945 for the enevitable invasion of the Japanese homeland by the allies. The colored wedges represent the division patch colors of the Canadian Forces. I think the force disbanded when the atomic bombs ended the need for invasion, but I could be wrong about that.


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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by Infanteer on Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:41 am

    Thanks for the introduction and explanation of your intentions.

    The second blouse shown is badged to a Sergeant with the Infantry Corps. This is a home service uniform as evidenced by the general service (GS) badge which according to regulations was to be removed when the soldier deployed overseas. The CAPF patches on the blouse are the small version which technically were intended to be worn superimposed on the wearer's existing formation patches, if he had any. There was a larger version that was for use when the soldier didn't already have a formation patch on his uniform. Perhaps someone has photographic evidence of the small version of the CAPF patch being worn by itself.

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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by 22Coy on Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:07 am

    Thank you for both your comments mk1rceme and infanteer. In your opinions are both BDs original WWII period? Am I correct in assuming that the crossed rifles indicate marksman?

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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by Infanteer on Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:58 pm

    For me, it's near impossible to determine originality from the photos as I can't get a feel for the how the insignia has been attached and overall age/wear. Not to mention the issue with the incorrect usage of the CAPF patches which does not necessarily mean they are not original to the blouse but it's something to consider. Yes, the crossed rifles are marksmanship awards.

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    Re: HELP PLEASE: CANADIAN WWII BDs Merged with Locked topic started by servicepubs

    Post by shootemup on Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:56 am

    Any provenance (back story) on the items might help you make the determine the genuineness of the tunics as a whole. The market has been flooded in recent years with authentic WW2 uniforms, but with post war patches, or with wartime patched attached with post war thread, etc, to ostensibly increase the value of the item. If the two have been stored together for a the last half century, that is a good indication of their status - but what else was stored with them, if anything? Read through the other forum threads on how to identify patches/thread as wartime vs postwar, etc. There are a few neat tricks (use a blacklight, for instance) to do this basic research. Research the owner(s) of the uniforms - who they might have been, where did they serve, with what unit/formation/division, etc.

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