What do you all think about this?

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    Cameraguy
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    What do you all think about this?

    Post by Cameraguy on Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:36 pm

    I've seen a few helmets marked similar to this way,and it scares me. I even came across two helmets from different people/areas in Canada with same markings,serial number and name.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-RCAF-Brodie-Helmet-ID-to-F-L-Typhoon-Wing-Normandy-/161165240656?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2586326950

    pylon1357
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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by pylon1357 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:52 pm

    I guess I am a cynic, I would never buy anything like this as it just plain "looks wrong" to me. I cannot put my finger on any one thing that sounds bells to me. It is just the lid as a whole that puts me off.



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    Bill
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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by Bill on Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:58 pm

    Well first off, RCAF numbers were usually "J" numbers for officers and "R" numbers for other ranks. The C number was alloted to RCOC 1 Ordnance Stores Company, Military District 3.

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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by pylon1357 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:22 pm

    Bill wrote:Well first off, RCAF numbers were usually "J" numbers for officers and "R" numbers for other ranks. The C number was alloted to RCOC 1 Ordnance Stores Company, Military District 3.
    Ha, funny, Bill, of course you are 100% bang on with that. Regimental prefix is certainly NOT that of a member of the RCAF.

    I still maintain this lid smells funny


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    Cameraguy
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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by Cameraguy on Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:34 pm

    I'm with you guys. I just did up a helmet with medic crosses as per a pic I saw from the Italian campaign. I painted it,added some Juno Beach sand to it,resprayed and then added the medic look. This helmet on Ebay looks pretty much the same as it...
    :P
    Then add what you fellows state here?
    Skeptic?Yup.
    Cheers fellas,and if you live in the prairies...stay warm!

    Jonhno
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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by Jonhno on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:41 pm

    just saw this earlier, the helmet is a UK maker, the web chinstrap is classic british, the RCAF no also threw me off, I was not keen on this one either but maybe I am wrong
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1940-Dated-Mk-2-Helmet-With-Original-Artillery-Decal-/310808541236?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=DlJZdCi1JCkKEmByIlvnDgJJYVA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

    leprechaun
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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by leprechaun on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:42 pm

    Were helmet shells stamped like that?
    I have never seen this before

    Infanteer
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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by Infanteer on Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:15 am

    Yes, I've seen the C broad arrow ink stamp on original shells before. That's not to say that they should all have this stamp but it is not unusual.

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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by pylon1357 on Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:48 am

    Again, while looking at that one, I felt queezy. I have seen the C/l\ on helmets before. In fact IIRC a few years back, there was an abundance of bare shells that were selling for about $10.00 each. It seemed you could not turn around with out knocking over a pile of these shells.

    I would be uneasy with lids like the one linked to as it has no liner and I don't see wear inside where the liner would have been. Furthermore, why would anyone remove remove a liner from an original helmet like this?? Just seems odd to me.

    I guess I am a cynic, and it may be a loss for me as I would not personally trust the authenticity of this lid, or any of the many that seem to be coming out lately. They all look the same pretty much, same sand and paint texture. These to me were not too common but now they seem rather plentiful.

    I am not very knowledgeable in regards to these helmets but I would not be confortable with one in my collection anytime soon.


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    edstorey
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    Decaled and Painted Helmets

    Post by edstorey on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:17 am

    US M1 Helmets went through this same trend about a decade ago when WWII M1s became 'collectable'. All of a sudden there were loads of nicely painted helmets up for sale that were fetching crazy prices. This now seems to be the trend with Canadian and British Mk IIs. Where were all of these painted helmets 30 years ago when no-one valued a Mk II? All I can say is 'buyer beware'.

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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by pylon1357 on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:24 am

    edstorey wrote:US M1 Helmets went through this same trend about a decade ago when WWII M1s became 'collectable'.   All of a sudden there were loads of nicely painted helmets up for sale that were fetching crazy prices.   This now seems to be the trend with Canadian and British Mk IIs.   Where were all of these painted helmets 30 years ago when no-one valued a Mk II?   All I can say is 'buyer beware'.
    Thank you for this observation Ed, it is good to know I not crazy and not the only one who has noticed this trend. I think I have seen more of these fancy MkIIs in the last month or so, than I have seen since I started collecting in the early 80s.


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    Bill
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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by Bill on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:57 am

    Similar observation as Ed. I don't remember seeing many marked Mk II helmets until about five years ago. Now it seems like every Mk II is marked.
    An observation on the RCA helmet. Some where it was noted that the RCA gun decaled helmets were post war. The wartime ones have the tac signs.

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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by Infanteer on Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:05 am

    Cliff, not to argue your assessment of the helmet but I would like to point out that the helmet does have its liner which was removed for some of the photos but is in place for some of the others. Without having the helmet in hand it's difficult for me to comment on originality but if it's a fake it was very well executed. Having seen some repro German helmets a friend of mine had custom painted I can attest that there are some very talented "artists" who can artificially age and wear these helmets with convincing effects. Normally when in hand however, they lack the patina of age that isn't obvious in photos.

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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by pylon1357 on Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:28 am

    Point well taken Steve. Honestly, I never noticed the photos with the liner. LOL I still would want a hands on for sure. Too many of these out there now for them to be all original IMO. By far, I am not a skilled artisan, but given a little time, I could produce a very convincing helmet like this to the Irish.

    I am still trying to figure out what the deal is with the Chromed MkII sporting an ORs Irish Cap Badge attached. I saw it a few years ago and have made inquiries, but to no avail at this point. I have also seen a MkII with the Irish Badge attached. Other than a 'cool' factor, I think something is amiss.


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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by Jonhno on Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:35 pm

    I must admit that I am interested in Flashed helmets but as a helmet in general, post war use etc. Of course it would be nice to correctly identify each helmet to a specific date, thats one thing, price is another, I was happy to pay apx 100 each for my few helmets and having experience handling military stuff for 20 years the helmets I do own feel right, ie original finish, though I cant justify for one paying 3-400 on a helmet that cant really be fixed to one time frame, unless I am sure like others it had cast iron provenance, which is hard

    On the point about seeing these helmets for sale in the past that is interesting and cautionary, though perhaps also that stuff is more obtainable or at least viewable presently because of the internet and forums, which is great in one respect because of the wealth of knowledge and always appreciate any help given or if I can help someone etc, though trends spread faster too, the humble Brodie helmet is Iconic and displays nicely, as with any other item I buy, has it been messed with is no1 in my mind, but then how much is it


    I guess people have too much money and not enough common sense, in certain cases

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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by Bill on Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:45 pm

    Just an aside on the whole issue of helmets and markings. In a reserve infantry officers' mess there was a dolled up Mk II that was part of the mess traditions. It was to be worn by some victim for some mess transgression that I can't remember at the moment. What should be pointed out, is that the helmet had some odd regimental markings, and who knows where it resides now.
    Sometimes we read too much into the artifacts that we come across. Unfortunately there is a collectors tendency that is called the "want to believe factor". Some artifact comes along that a collector (or collectors) want to believe is good and all their collecting experience and sense goes out the window. Usually there is a bit of supporting provenance. Net result, the item is acquired, and takes on more of an air of authenticity as it is in a collection. I have been caught on this just recently and likely will in the future. But each time it comes along, one should learn from the experience.
    A couple of months ago I was asked about an accumulation of CEF badges (not one I recently purchased, another one). It had a lot of badges, including duplicates of several units, like the 61st Bn, 177 Bn, etc. These badges had some age from appearances, but on closer examination they were "aged" examples of the bright brass badges coming out of a couple of dealers in the UK. This accumulation was supposedly an older collection put together years ago. My first reaction, because the accumulation was "seeded" with the good badges was that this was an okay group of badges. But then as I took time to think about what was there and the numbers of some badges  questions kept cropping up. (why would a collection have 4 x 61st Bn badges?, or three 177th Bn?) I did some more research, including comparing the 61st and others with the repros from the UK. Bingo, they were exactly the same badges, but someone had messed with them. Moral of the story, if you are colleting today, you need to cover all the bases before committing to buy. Joe Harper used to comment on how odd it was that ultra rare CEF badges, ones that had never been seen before, were showing up consistently in the 1990's. He had suspicions about these back then.
    It is the same for these helmets today, where are they coming from? Especially when they haven't been seen or heard of before? As mentioned some individuals are very talented when it comes to creating

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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by Jonhno on Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:02 pm

    very true Bill, another thing with helmets is one can appear well used, but reality is down to poor storage, I also got caught on some cap badges, when I got them in hand they were all finished the same, lugs all the same, if I brought one on its own I might not have twigged right away, but seeing a few together its obvious, were all fakes so they went back,

    on these helmets, I think best left alone in future for me, my ideal would be to see a book with all possibilities contained and ID`d as I just think they have a certain appeal when you see a few together, but of course dont want to get rose tinted about collecting them,


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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by pylon1357 on Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:09 pm

    Bill, until you clarified your statement about getting caught out with a resent collection of CEF badges, my heart skipped a beat. LOL



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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by Infanteer on Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:16 pm

    Good point on how handling an item on it's own might not sound any alarms but then having several with the same characteristics can then raise concerns. As an example, a friend of mine asked me a few years ago to examine some badged BD blouses that mostly came from one source. While on their own the stitching didn't appear suspicious but as soon as I realized that they were all sewn exactly the same (same angle to stitches, same spacing, etc...) it became apparent that something was amiss. According to some of the members here the same appears to be happening with rough camo MkII helmets. It's important to be cautious but hopefully we are not so paranoid that we inadvertently condemn legitimate items which I think happens sometimes.

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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by Jonhno on Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:37 am

    my Dad always says too that if it seems to good to be true it probably is, of course it can be disappointing to hear but he was usually right, seems the item starting this thread sold though

    agree with the condemn point, that`s why I always think too its important to get out and handle stuff and do as much research and opinion searching with fellow collectors as possible

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    Re: What do you all think about this?

    Post by Jonhno on Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:11 am

    just regarding the helmet with Artillery Decal, the ink stamp inside I have seen before also, wonder if this could just be a good helmet and finish that would fit into a post war range,

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