Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

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    kozowy1967
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    Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by kozowy1967 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:18 am

    Morning Gents I have been on the hunt for some time for a nice war time unmolested HSRAC to add to my collection and was lucky enough to acquire this little gem last week from a collector friend in Ontario it is a very welcome addition to my collection of Canadian helmets although these were manufactured in Great Britain they were issued to the RCAC as well in and around July of 1943 the helmets Canadian designation reference number was (1A19120)
    I have very little reference material on these types of helmets and my understanding is that BMB manufactured all of the P-type shells.
    The shell appears to have started its life with a coat of brown Khaki paint this is evident from the interior of the shell so it was very probably produced in and around mid 1943 the exterior has been repainted in a textured charcoal grey which IMO is war time applied as I have been able to find reference to this type of texturing found on the Canadian issued Steel Mk I's in Lucy's book tin lids and a few other sources.
    I know from other research that British post war RCAC Mk I's can be found with a heavy textured OD green paint but can find little data on it's Canadian cousin  
    The liner is a 1942 I.T.C. in a size 6 1/4 it is missing one of it's buffers but is still quite soft a supple the chinstrap is an early Mk III and is correct to this helmet there is period evidence that supports these can be found worn with the standard Mk II chinstrap as well as seen worn by Canadian troops in Italy or Southwestern Europe.
    Any comments and opinions on this Mk I and the textured paint on the exterior of the shell are most welcome thanks for looking.

    Regards Mark

    [url=https://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=12&u=18763100][[/url
    ]]:
    ///u/f55/18/76/31/00/pictur20.jpg[/img]

    mk1rceme
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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by mk1rceme on Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:35 am

    Very nice! I really like the rough look on that one.


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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by kozowy1967 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:41 am

    Thanx Dale I rather like it my self what is your opinion of the charcoal grey exterior texturing .
    I am thinking late war applied from the limited info available .

    Regards Mark

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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by LSR on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:42 pm

    Very nice helmet.I saw it on warrellics forum.
    I happen to have a clc/C Mk2 with similair paint.

    Since you did some research on helmets, I have a question: I have a hsrac with a steel liner securing screw.
    The screw is similar in appearance as the (British) brass screw,the helmet is all original and never been apart.
    Ever seen that before?

    kozowy1967
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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by kozowy1967 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:54 pm

    Any chance of posting a picture.

    Regards Mark

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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by LSR on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:09 pm


    Here one from my archive

    kozowy1967
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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by kozowy1967 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:22 pm

    Thanx I will have a look when I get home after work and I can view it on my laptop instead of the small screen on my smart phone .

    Regards Mark

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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by kozowy1967 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:16 pm

    Hi LSR finally home from work and I have had a chance to look through some reference material and a few data bases if you had told me it was manufactured from brass my first thought would have been the British Mk III style with the smaller pan head they are approx, 10 mm in width these were first produced in 1942 and were meant to conserve non-ferrous metals but as it is constructed from steel it has me scratching my head some as I can find no reference to steel ones ever being produced.
    This is not to say of course that this securing bolt has not been on this helmet since the second world war as we must face the reality that things break down in the field and one must use what is ever available to them at the time and this style of pan head screw was in existence well before the war is it possible to get a better picture of the screw head and the securing nut possibly it will hold a few more clues to it's origins.

    Regards Mark

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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by mk1rceme on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:38 pm

    My two tankers...both have Canadian liners and the wide panhead bolts. The nearest one has the rough brushed on repaint as well.



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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by kozowy1967 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:54 pm

    Very nice examples Dale thank you for showing them these helmets are quite new to me so there is a bit of a learning curve going on and I can find very little info on the Canadian issued variation.
    Were all HSRAC that were issued to members of the RCAC refitted with the Mk II securing bolt and Canadian liners at a regimental or division level or was this done by troops as a personal preference.
    Or will there be a mix of British and or Canadian components found in these Mk I's.

    Regards Mark

    edstorey
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    RAC Helmets

    Post by edstorey on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:00 pm

    Here are a couple that I own.




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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by kozowy1967 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:09 pm

    Thanks for posting them Ed you have some wonderful helmets in your collection nice to see the quick release chinstrap on the first helmet you have shown If memory serves me correct this style of strap was not produced to mid 45 and the second helmet shown has a post war Mk III chinstrap on it do they have Canadian or British liners and securing bolts mounted in them.

    Regards Mark

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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by mk1rceme on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:11 pm

    kozowy1967 wrote:Very nice examples Dale thank you for showing them these helmets are quite new to me so there is a bit of a learning curve going on and I can find very little info on the Canadian issued variation.
    Were all HSRAC that were issued to members of the RCAC refitted with the Mk II securing bolt and Canadian liners at a regimental or division level or was this done by troops as a personal preference.
    Or will there be a mix of British and or Canadian components found in these Mk I's.

    Regards Mark
     

    I got mine around a year and a half apart, and from different countries. It surprised me that they were darn near the same. Normally seen these in the configuration you have shown. I'll have to have a peek through tinlids to see if it mentions anything about these.


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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by kozowy1967 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:16 pm

    I checked through tinlids all ready Dale the only real mention was concerning they could be found either with the Mk III or the Mk II chinstrap and Rogers example he has posted in the book from his own collection has the charcoal grey re-texture on the shell.

    Regards mARK

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    Post by edstorey on Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:32 pm

    Yes, the first is indeed from 1945 and has a British liner. The second is Post-WWII, with the liner being secured by a 'Lift-the-Dot' fastener. I own a couple of earlier examples, but have yet to photograph them.

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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by kozowy1967 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:57 pm

    Thanks Ed I thought as much these helmets had a very long service life in the British armed forces right up to the early 80's and I think the Mk 1 ended it's service in the Royal Navy.
    I have seen but one example to date with what I would consider to be a period applied Mk II chinstrap and it was on an example flashed to the RCAC these helmet's are getting hard to come by in unmolested condition.

    Regards Mark

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    RAC Helmets

    Post by edstorey on Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:22 pm

    Here are a couple of images of RAC Helmets being used by Canadians on Centurions in Germany.




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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by kozowy1967 on Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:12 pm

    Many thanks Ed post war images of Canadians wearing the Mk I RAC are hard to come by here are a few of my favorite wartime shots to compliment the thread I will bet you have probably seen most of them before.



    Regards Mark

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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by LSR on Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:11 pm

    kozowy1967 wrote:Hi LSR finally home from work and I have had a chance to look through some reference material and a few data bases if you had told me it was manufactured from brass my first thought would have been the British Mk III style with the smaller pan head they are approx, 10 mm in width these were first produced in 1942 and were meant to conserve non-ferrous metals but as it is constructed from steel it has me scratching my head some as I can find no reference to steel ones ever being produced.
    This is not to say of course that this securing bolt has not been on this helmet since the second world war as we must face the reality that things break down in the field and one must use what is ever available to them at the time and this style of pan head screw was in existence well before the war is it possible to get a better picture of the screw head and the securing nut possibly it will hold a few more clues to it's origins.

    Regards Mark    
    Here you are



    As you can see it has exactly the same size and shape as the brass screw.
    And judging the patina the helmet and liner are together for a few years,(what proofs nothing ofcourse) but its better than a fresh screw.

    Regards Henk-Jan

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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by kozowy1967 on Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:19 pm

    Thanks LSR to me just the liner securing screw looks to have been replaced the nut looks to be the proper elasticated stop nut .
    I cant be 100% on that right now though as it is hard to get a good blow up of the details on my smart phone.

    Regards Mark


    Last edited by kozowy1967 on Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling correction)

    Van doos
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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by Van doos on Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:54 pm

    Hi!

    My example from the 27th Canadian Tank Regiment ( Sherbrooke Fusiliers ) The liner is in bad shape and, yes I now, the scew is upside down.

















    Thanks!

    Van Doos

    kozowy1967
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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by kozowy1967 on Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:25 pm

    Nice helmet I like the patina on the outer shell looks to have been repainted at least once in its life if the color on the interior of the shell is anything to go on.
    I would say it started out its life with a coat of khaki green paint and then was over painted in khaki brown I rather like the CTR flash has this helmet been coated over on the exterior as it is rather glossy looking ?
    As to the liner securing nut and bolt this practice was actually quite common as I have more than a few Mk II's in my collection that this has been done on and I can see why it was done on this particular helmet with the crucifix dome pad missing there would be no buffer to protect the top of ones head from the bottom of the securing bolt.

    Regards Mark

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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by Van doos on Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:08 pm

    Thanks Mark for your comment.

    I am realy excited about this helmet. I have just received it today. So I dont no much about it. I will try to find more info about is owner. For my it's the first time I saw this kind of helmet with a flash on the side. Maybe you have more info?

    I agree about the colour. The helmet was probably repaint .

    Regards

    Van doos

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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by Infanteer on Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:46 pm

    kozowy1967 wrote:Many thanks Ed post war images of Canadians wearing the Mk I RAC are hard to come by here are a few of my favorite wartime shots to compliment the thread I will bet you have probably seen most of them before.


    Regards Mark

    These are indeed good photos. It would appear that these helmets have MkII chinstraps. This may be a more common practice than I realized.

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    Re: Nice War time Mk I HSRAC

    Post by kozowy1967 on Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:44 am

    Here is another one that clearly shows the sprung side of the Mk II chinstrap being worn by a Calgary Regiment captain (14th Arm’d Regt, 1 CAB] as he dismounts from his Sherman tank wearing an RAC Helmet, San Leonardo, Italy, 10/Dec/43.
    [/url]

    Regards Mark

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