197th Cap and Collar Badges

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    mk1rceme
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    197th Cap and Collar Badges

    Post by mk1rceme on Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:06 pm






    Last edited by mk1rceme on Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:36 pm; edited 3 times in total


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    37patt
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    Re: 197th Cap and Collar Badges

    Post by 37patt on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:57 pm

    Those are two very interesting sets. I don't really collect WWI and always kind of thought they just used the numbered overseas cap badges.

    Thanks for posting them.

    mk1rceme
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    Re: 197th Cap and Collar Badges

    Post by mk1rceme on Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:24 pm

    I'm no expert either. I read that these units were very short lived, being absorbed into other battalions when they got overseas.


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    Bill
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    Re: 197th Cap and Collar Badges

    Post by Bill on Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:25 am

    There were 260 infantry battalions recruited for the CEF in the FWW, but only 52 actually served as active units. The balance were absorbed into reserve battalions and the men fed into the front line battalions. There were several phases of recruiting during the war, the first being Sam Hughes' call to arms, which became the first and second contingents. Then the recruiting was done on a "local" basis, were the county or district became the mobilizing name. As the war continued, and it became apparent that it was going to be a drawn out affair, other focus for recruiting were used. In the case of Dale's badges, the 197th drew on Icelandic settlers in Manitoba, and the 223 focused on Scandanavians from Manitoba and the west. Of course, these battalions were not exclusively recruited from the particular ethnic groups, and once overseas the battalions were broken up and used as reinforcements for the Canadian Corps.

    Jonhno
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    Re: 197th Cap and Collar Badges

    Post by Jonhno on Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:05 pm

    Great examples of the design and quality of these badges, I just started to handle more of these CEF badges recently and it made me wonder who designed them was it one group or?
    I did read in another thread how a battalion did not receive its cap badges until they were overseas, so it makes me think the turn around time was very short from design to production, I also wonder if any original paper drawings exist?
    The variety is amazing and almost puzzling as to why so much effort it went into making each badge individual

    is there a publication that deals with this topic?

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    Re: 197th Cap and Collar Badges

    Post by Bill on Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:56 am

    Morning Jonhno, You have entered a weird and wonderful world. CEF badges are very colletable, but unfortunately, they are getting to be very expensive. And there are fakes coming out in droves, plus the ones that have been around for many years now. Here is a link to the page for references compiled on the British and Commonwealth Military Badge Forum. The questions that you asked are best answered by Joe Harper's book, A Source of Pride. The standard pocket reference is the Babin's book, Canadian Expeditionary Force Cap Badges 1914-1918. But it is only line drawings of the cap badges, and it is not complete. There is also an excellent CEF Gallery on the B&CMBF. See http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/canadian_expeditionary_force/cef_index.htm
    In answer to  your question about drawings etc, Library and Archives Canada (LAC) has many files pertaining to the FWW badges, and some of these are thorough documentation of the development of badges for some battalions. Others, not a  shred of paper. Two factors complicate the issue. First, many badges for the early contingents (1 Canadian Division and 2 Canadian Division) were designed overseas and approvals if any went through the GOC of the divisions and then maybe the documents made their way to the offices of the Overseas Military Forces of Canada. Second, a fire at an HQ destroyed a lot of records.

    Jonhno
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    Re: 197th Cap and Collar Badges

    Post by Jonhno on Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:20 am

    thanks for the info Bill, will have to pick up those books, I have to resist buying badges lol it just amazes me the detail that went into the design, when really they could have just produced (for arguments sake)say a simple maple leaf with the corresponding bat no. though they would not have the same appeal

    Cheers

    John

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