British MKIII D-Day configuration

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    thegate
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    British MKIII D-Day configuration

    Post by thegate on Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:51 pm

    British MKIII D-Day configuration










    Cameraguy
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    Re: British MKIII D-Day configuration

    Post by Cameraguy on Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:25 pm

    I like...Nice!

    edstorey
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    Mk III Helmet

    Post by edstorey on Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:07 pm

    Good scrim on the helmet, but the chinstrap is not correct.





    You need a chinstrap like the third one down from the top.


    Infanteer
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    Re: British MKIII D-Day configuration

    Post by Infanteer on Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:11 pm

    If I'm not mistaken, there was mention in some period documents that the initial issue of MkIII helmets necessitated the use of the liners and chinstraps from the MkII helmets. Anyone else recall this?

    edstorey
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    Tin Lids

    Post by edstorey on Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:23 pm

    The use of Mk II Helmet liners in Mk III Helmets is documented in "Tin Lids".

    Infanteer
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    Re: British MKIII D-Day configuration

    Post by Infanteer on Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:29 pm

    True, but not the reference I was thinking of. The one I'm thinking of was a quote from a period document and also makes mention of the chinstraps needing to be reused as well.

    thegate
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    Re: British MKIII D-Day configuration

    Post by thegate on Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:45 am

    The introduction of the helmet Mark III is gradually made according to the system of the unitarian replacement, the priority being given to the troops of the theaters of operations, following the example of the 21th group of armies which was completely reequiped of helmets Mark III the day before the landing in Normandy.
    Given that the headgear of the new helmet stays the model Mark II, certain units, mainly Canadian, were only endowed with shells Mark III in whom the soldiers had to place headgear and chin strap of their helmet Mark II.
    source WWHF

    edstorey
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    Document Source

    Post by edstorey on Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:23 pm

    What is WWHF?

    I have a problem with the first sentence as it states " following the example of the 21th group of armies which was completely reequiped of helmets Mark III the day before the landing in Normandy". Judging by the number of images showing troops on D-Day wearing Mk II Helmets, this transformation was far for complete.

    Does WWHF provide sources for its information?

    thegate
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    Re: British MKIII D-Day configuration

    Post by thegate on Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:26 pm

    http://world-war-helmets.com/home.php

    edstorey
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    Website!!!!

    Post by edstorey on Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:48 pm

    Okay, World War Helmet is a nice looking site with some very detailed images of helmet parts. The text for the British Mk III appears to be extensive and covers a lot of minutia concerning construction and manufacture's markings, unfortunately there is no credit given for any of this information. The period images used for the article are uncredited and appear to be lifted from other publications, some are well known Canadian LAC images.

    The statement "L'introduction du casque Mark III est effectuée graduellement selon le système du remplacement unitaire, la priorité étant donnée aux troupes des théâtres d'opérations, à l'instar du 21ème groupe d'armées qui fut entièrement rééquipé de casques Mark III la veille du débarquement en Normandie." is misleading as there is photographic evidence showing both British and Canadian troops wearing Mk II Helmets on D-Day.

    Remember, you have to draw your information from multiple sources which includes both books and websites. Websites are very useful as a potential source of quick to access information and they have an allure with many collectors as they are free. Unfortunately this comes at a cost as anyone can host a website and populate it with anything which means that the content may not be accurate. These problems also exist with books, but they are harder to publish and distribute then websites; although even with books still you want to consult multiple sources when researching a topic.

    Why do I mention credit notes? This tells follow-on researchers and the general reader where the information came from. For all we know the information in the webpage on the Mk III Helmet could have been drawn from other published works, from stories gathered from other collectors or are perhaps is the hypothesis of the author.

    Jonhno
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    Re: British MKIII D-Day configuration

    Post by Jonhno on Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:17 pm

    interesting topic,  I do not recall seeing and official document regarding mk2 chinstraps being used also, would be interesting to see

    Out of the limited no. of Mk3's I have seen only one that had the MK2 chinstrap and I suspect that was a later addition as the wear was not consistent with the helmet

    can anyone recommend a book/site showing a mk3 with the mk2 chinstrap, I have not got round to having a look

    for arguments sake for ease of mass distribution and ease of transition I can see why using a liner from your previous helmet would make sense,

    However in photo's you do see the elastic chinstrap often, this of course was not a new design for the MK3 as it had already appeared in 1941 and was used on Mk2's also.

    For me an ideal D-Day configuration would be a standard MK3 or mk2,  I am sure there are variances but have not had the fortune to see proven been there helmets

    just want to add have been guilty of jumping the gun out of enthusiasm, these forums are good and I appreciate the knowledge. I wish I had more time to devote

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