the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

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    pylon1357
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    the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by pylon1357 on Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:38 am

    Just starting on this pair. I am so far behind with regards to research and such that really do not know where to start. I had put everything on hold until my move was complete. I am happy the move is finished, just to too happy I cannot find most of reference books, supplies or anything else. To top it all, the L.A.C. has not released the files yet, so I cannot view them to get a better understanding of where Fred served.

    So for now, just few photos of his pair, and original mailing box.








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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by lorne19 on Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:49 am

    Nice pair Cliff, I really the box of issue thats something you don't see everyday.  I feel your frustration has well about LAC.  I certainly love the idea of all the files being availible online but I wish they could have come up with a way to do it that would make them unaccessible for months on end.

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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by pylon1357 on Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:27 am

    lorne19 wrote:Nice pair Cliff, I really the box of issue thats something you don't see everyday.  I feel your frustration has well about LAC.  I certainly love the idea of all the files being availible online but I wish they could have come up with a way to do it that would make them unaccessible for months on end.

    I like this pair as well, it was pretty much a steal I think. I have decided that my children do not need an inheritance so I am planning to try to cover all 260 CEF Bns, plus the Provincial ones, and corps, etc. Since none of my children show any interest in my medal collection, I have requested that, with the exception of the Irish Regiment of Canada portion, I am to be buried with my medal collection, in an unmarked grave.


    According to their website, the LAC are supposed to have the files for A-D online by summer sometime. I have a couple of B's and a couple of D's that are just waiting to be researched further.


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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by lorne19 on Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:31 pm

    Shocked I hope your joking about being burried with your collection. Has far has LAC is concerned I do hope they get the ball rolling soon there a lot of research I would like to begin some of witch needs to done by Nov 11th. I hope they get more than just A-D up by this summer.

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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by Bill on Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:45 am

    Cliff, check your email. I sent you a message.

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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by pylon1357 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:28 am

    Bill wrote:Cliff, check your email. I sent you a message.

    I got it Bill, many thanks for the heads up.


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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by pylon1357 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:13 pm

    Well I secured the additional Items for Fred Butterworth. A nice photo, Discharge Certificate, Dispersal form, Identity Discs, paybooks and a few other items. I will post these very soon. My scanner is not up and working at the moment, so I have to do all this in photos.

    First up is something I have never seen before, a CERTIFIED COPY of an entry of BIRTH. I think I will be consulting an archivist in regards to protecting this one. As can been seen in these photos, the document has some damage.





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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by pylon1357 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:42 pm

    A few more paperwork items from Fred Butterworth. 2 paybooks, a copy of Returned Soldiers Handbook, in almost perfect condition. An unused postcard with an image of H.M.S. Baltic on the front.

    I suspect this may have been the ship he returned to Canada on. I have to wait until the LAC upload his Service Records online, as I cannot view them currently in person at the LAC due to their
    digitization project.  

    Finally in this photo, a membership card for the Young Men's Christian Association in Edmonton Alberta, dated 14th November 1919. As a Veteran, he was given his membership in this Association at no charge.



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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by pylon1357 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:47 pm

    Discharge Certificate and Dispersal Certificate.





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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by pylon1357 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:55 pm

    And finally his Identity Discs and his portrait with overseas chevrons, discs and 1st Canadian Infantry Division Remembrance buttonhole device.





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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by lorne19 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:10 pm

    Wow great find Cliff , groups with this level of paper work and personal items to spice it up are very rare. Look forward to hearing more on this one.

    Thanks Lorne jr

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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by pylon1357 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:09 pm

    Lorne, this group also came with the following belt, and a number of British Badge, that at first, I didn't think there was any connection. I am now leaning toward the idea that the badges were collected by Fred. Unfortunately, they have been removed from the belt. My next task after identifying all the badges, will be to try and figure out which one went where on the belt.

    Here are 2 quick pictures of the belt. There are no marking that I can find on the belt. Nor have I identified the belt as of yet.





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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by lorne19 on Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:57 am

    Hi Cliff,

    Could it be a stable belt? and please keep the pics and info coming.  Very Happy 

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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by Bill on Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:52 am

    Hi Cliff, I think you are bang on. The badges in the lot have been removed from the belt at some point in time.
    Glad it all came together, albeit at price.

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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by pylon1357 on Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:16 am

    Lorne, yes it is a stable belt, butt I am not sure about these things, as I am accustom to the coloured Regimental ones, not this one that at best would be considered a Khaki? one.


    Thanks Bill, I am very pleased with myself that I was able to secure the balance of these items and bring them all back together again. I must thank you again for bringing this to my attention. I may have missed it.

    I am also very happy to have read a topic on The British Medals forum about a fellow who asked a seller if they had any other items to a soldier, the reply was an affirmative one. This led to may other posts about the same thing. I gave it try when this auction started and found out about the pay books, Returning Soldiers booklet, Membership card, and the Entry of Live Birth Record. None of these were listed in the auction, but it was agreed, that should I be successful in my bid, these would be included.

    Yeah, the price was a little higher than I had hoped but, as Lorne stated, it is a very complete group. Unfortunately, Fred's War Service Badge is no where to be found. There are however, a numbered Great War Veteran pin, and a couple of Legion Pins with numbers on them.

    I made a post over at British Badge Forum, and the lads saved my bacon once again. I was stumped on a few of the badges, but they sorted me out. Really a top notch bunch of people there. I spent literally hours (when I should have been sleeping), pouring over photos of British Badges. I figured out some but certainly not all not all.

    Now my task is to attempt to rebuild the belt with the badges and buttons that came with the grouping. Oh my lord what chore it is. I have a general idea using the lug distances and styles. Also a few shadows of the outline of badges, and the fact some of the lugs are bent, giving a different measurement.


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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by pylon1357 on Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:00 am

    Ok, now after pounding my head against the table for a few days in regards to trying to assemble this belt, here is what I came up with. Many of them were quite easy to fit, one or two really gave me a headache and eye strain. It appears as if one badge is missing, noted on the right end of the belt.

    I was able to ID about 60% of the badges on my own. The rest of them, I solicited the help of the guys over at the British Badge Forum.







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    Re: the son of Mrs. Butterworth's served in the 2nd Bn C.E.F.

    Post by lorne19 on Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:58 pm

    Truely an amazing unique group Cliff. Have you gotton a copy of his servcie file yet?

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