Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

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    Cameraguy
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    Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by Cameraguy on Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:59 am

    Does anyone have any photos of yours or others you know about? I can't seem to find many pics at all anywhere.
    Cheers!

    Bill
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by Bill on Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:45 am

    Not exactly sure what you are asking Al. The RR of C and the Winnipeg Gren wore standard issue battledress in Canada. In Hong Kong they wore khaki drill uniforms. When both units were re-constituted in Canada after Hong Kong they wore the standard battledress.

    lorne19
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by lorne19 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:14 pm

    I think what he means is does anyone have any WW2 periode WG or RRoC unifroms in there collection or know of anyone that does and are there pics to share. Is this correct Cameraguy? If so I to would be curious to see any WG or RRoC uniforms anyone might have.

    Thanks

    Lorne jr

    Bill
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by Bill on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:41 pm

    To re-iterate, in Hong Kong the RR of C and the WG wore khaki drill uniforms. Not sure of the issuing authority. They may have had Canadian issue khaki drill or they may have drawn on the British system for tropical wear, as the Canadians serving in Italy did. It is not clear what if any insignia was worn in Hong Kong. This early in the war the only insignia available was the worsted slip-ons and the worsted Canada titles.  Both the RR of C and the WG were reformed in early 1942 and served in Canada for home defence. Each unit had coloured embroidered titles approved sometime in 1942, but these were not available for the Hong Kong personnel who were now Po W's.  The WG served in Canada and were sent to the UK and became a training cadre depot there. The RR of C served in Canada and were sent overseas and broken up for reinforcements.  The new battalions of both units wore battledress. These uniforms may exist, but are not Hong Kong uniforms.
    The survivors of the WG and RR of C held prisoner by the Japanese were repatriated immediately after their release from the PoW camps. The remnants of the  uniforms they had when released were destroyed. They were issued battledress on the way home. A special badge was authorized for the surivors, the HK patch with silver white lettering on a red circle. They were also supposed to get the appropriate regimental titles, but it is not clear if the inventory of titles was available when the arrived on the west coast. Most of these personnel were demobilized, but a few re-joined the army in the post war period. They wore the HK patch on the uniforms for a period of time, but effective January, 1947 it was ordered that all wartime formation patches be removed.  Some of the Hong Kong personnel  in the RR of C or the WG and would have wore the uniform insignia of those units and maybe the HK patch. There is a chance that these tunics surive.It must be noted that the titles for both regimets remained the same pattern from their approval in 1942 unti they were disbanded. Both of these reserve units remained active in the militia until the RR of C and the Winnipeg Grenadiers  were reduced to nil strength and placed on the Supplemetary Order of Battle in 1966 and 1965 respectively.


    Last edited by Bill on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:49 am; edited 2 times in total

    Cameraguy
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by Cameraguy on Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:53 pm

    Thanks guys,lots of information here which is what I expected from this board.
    :)
    Any pics of what the boys wore would be great if possible. I've seen a uniform once with the "HK" on it,I only wish I could remember where.
    Cheers!

    edstorey
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    Try Google for Starters....

    Post by edstorey on Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:40 pm

    Just type in Canadians at Hong Kong and click images.

    Cameraguy
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by Cameraguy on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:49 pm

    I was hoping to get more detailed pics if there was anybody here with a tunic Ed. Those pics that I've seen on the internet aren't very clear or detailed.
    Thanks

    lorne19
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by lorne19 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:45 pm

    Take a look at this link.  Lots of photos of WG and RRoC boys wearing battledress with regimental titles and HK patches all taken shortly after returning to Canada in 45-46.

    Bill
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by Bill on Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:38 pm

    Lorne, I can't see a link.

    lorne19
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by lorne19 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:45 pm

    Not sure what happened, here's the link again hope it works.

    http://www.hkvca.ca/galleries/Gallery/index.htm


    lorne19
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by lorne19 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:50 pm

    Interesting to note that many of the RRoC boys are wearing Canada titles along with ther RRoC flashes and HK patches.

    Cameraguy
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by Cameraguy on Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:38 pm

    Thank you sir!

    lorne19
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by lorne19 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:07 pm

    Glad to of helped, I just wonder how many RCoC BD's have servived.

    Wgrenadier
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by Wgrenadier on Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:30 pm

    Hey Cameraguy!

    Here are some of the best close-up photos I have come across of early Canadian uniforms like the type the Winnipeg Grenadiers and the Royal Rifles of Canada would have had going to Hong Kong...

    1) Company Sergeant-Major James Robert Osborne, VC of the Winnipeg Grenadiers is seen wearing the quintessential Canadian summer uniform in Jamaica between 1940-1941. Note the recently-issued field service cap, Canadian-made KD shirt (with buttoned open collar, short sleeves and half-front), Canadian-made KD shorts (with belt loops rather than a double buckle closure) and long puttees worn without hosetops (similar to British troops in the early part of the Great War).



    2) A private of the Royal Rifles of Canada in Hong Kong in 1941. Note again the long puttees without hosetops, newly issued Pattern 1937 W.E. and the rolled long-sleeve shirt.



    3) Canadian soldiers training in Hong Kong in 1941. Note the short sleeves suggestive of Canadian-made KD shirts.



    4) A group of Canadian officers of an unknown regiment (possibly Royal Rifles of Canada?) standing on the deck of a ship. Note the early style holsters (too small for the large frame revolvers) and binocular cases without buckles, both suggestive of an early date.



    5) Another good view of the early Canadian-made KD uniform seen on an unidentified soldier at Camp Borden in 1940.



    6) Lastly, a nice color photo to demonstrate the shade of Canadian-made Khaki Drill (probably taken sometime after the fall of Hong Kong).


    Bill
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by Bill on Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:45 pm

    The cap badges indicate the officers are Royal Rifles. Note also the metal rank stars in dark metal. No evidence of cloth rank badges.

    Wgrenadier
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by Wgrenadier on Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:47 pm

    Here is my impression of a Winnipeg Grenadier at Hong Kong, for what it's worth. I know it has a number of issues (namely the incorrect boots, later pattern Canadian KD shirt, and basic pouches with 1" wide closure straps).



    HONG KONG, 1941

    As war with Japan loomed ominously on the horizon, it was quickly realized by British strategists that the defense of Hong Kong would be impossible. At first, the colony’s garrison was reduced to a token size, but then it was decided that limited reinforcements might deter the Japanese from starting a war. The Canadian Government volunteered to send two infantry battalions to defend Hong Kong, known as ‘C Force’. This force arrived in late November and by December 8th they faced a Japanese army of fifty thousand with no air cover or vehicles. Despite a resolute resistance, Hong Kong fell on Christmas day 1941.

    This Canadian infantryman has recently arrived in the colony and is probably more interested in the Hong Kong nightlife than the Japanese army massing on the border. In the coming months, this private will become a first-hand witness of Japanese cruelty as a POW, particularly from a sadistic Canadian-born member of the Kempeitai, Kanao Inouye, who took particular pleasure in harassing Canadian prisoners. (Battle) (C Force) (Kanao)

    1) Canadian-made steel helmet Mk.II, painted semi-matt green. The Canadian-made Mk.II sprung fabric and webbing chinstrap is in a more yellowish shade than the British version. (Mirouze WWII)

    2) Canadian pattern khaki drill shirt; adopted between the wars as ‘summer dress’, these lightweight green cotton shirts were worn in Canada during summer months (May through September) and also used in tropical stations like Bermuda and Jamaica. Canadian summer dress shirts featured a button-opened collar, short sleeves and no epaulettes. (Khaki Drill)

    3) Canadian-made Pattern 1937 Web Equipment; shown here in ‘battle order’ without the large pack and support straps. The small pack is worn high on the back and is attached to the basic pouches by means of hooks at the angle of the 'L' straps. The sword bayonet was worn on the left hip and the water bottle on the right hip. Canadian-made web sets were of a more golden hue than British made ones. Here the water bottle is the Canadian Mark VI with blue enamel and a thick khaki cloth cover.

    4) Canadian pattern fifty round bandolier; unlike the British version, Canadian five pocket bandoliers (like their American counterparts) relied on flaps rather than hooks.

    5) 'Small box respirator' or gasmask in Canadian-made Mk. VII haversack. The rubber and fabric mask was attached by a corrugated rubber tube to the box filter, which remained in its pocket inside the satchel when the mask was put on. The respirator was worn slung under the left arm when not in the alert position. (Mirouze WWII)

    6) Canadian pattern khaki drill shorts. Canadian summer dress shorts featured belt loops for the use of a trouser belt rather than relying on a double strap closure and, unlike the British pattern, had no field dressing pocket. (Chartrand)

    7) Canadian army issue brown leather trouser belt with brass buckle.

    8)P1902 khaki cloth puttees; here worn without hosetops in a manner similar to British soldiers prior to the Great War. (Chappell)

    9) Hobnailed 'Ammunition boots'. (Mirouze WWII)

    10) Bayonet No.1 Mk.1; the seventeen-inch 1907 pattern bayonet of the Great War was given new nomenclature by the Second World War.

    11) SMLE rifle No.1 Mk.III*; here seen with a Canadian-made P08 sling. (Mirouze WWI)

    Wgrenadier
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    Re: Hong Kong Royal Rifles/ Winnipeg Grenadiers uniforms

    Post by Wgrenadier on Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:48 pm

    Bill wrote:The cap badges indicate the officers are Royal Rifles. Note also the metal rank stars in dark metal. No evidence of cloth rank badges.

    Thanks Bill, I have always wondered about that! 2 thumbs up 

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