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    Question about Canadian WWII Mess Tins...

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    Jonhno
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    Post by Jonhno on Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:22 am

    I wondered if anyone was familiar with later dated Canadian made kidney mess tins,

    Interesting question about messtins as I had been looking for one canadian made and ww2 dated myself, what was the "battle dress" for canadian troops during 39/40 was it to have the messtin packed into the large pack? before we start seeing messtins inside skeleton carriers?


    Wgrenadier
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    Post by Wgrenadier on Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:52 pm

    Jonhno wrote:I wondered if anyone was familiar with later dated Canadian made kidney mess tins,

    Interesting question about messtins as I had been looking for one canadian made and ww2 dated myself, what was the "battle dress" for canadian troops during 39/40 was it to have the messtin packed into the large pack? before we start seeing messtins inside skeleton carriers?  



    Do you mean the 'd-shaped' mess tin or are you referring to some post WWII pattern when you say 'kidney mess tin'?

    I would bet that Canadians in 1939/40 carried Great War vintage mess tins and carried them on/in their Pattern 1908 large packs. Those Canadians lucky enough to get the newly issued Canadian-made webbing in 1940/41 probably carried their mess tins in the appropriate division of the Pattern 1937 small pack in 'Battle Order'. The question then becomes what were these first issued mess tins, early dated British ones in aluminum or tin or something else?
    Tankermike
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    Post by Tankermike on Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:43 pm

    A set with British markings in a Canadian holder.

    For sale if anyone is interested, heavy aluminum.

    Mike

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    Infanteer
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    Post by Infanteer on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:46 pm

    Actually Mike, the rolled edge (and weight) is indicative of tinned steel.
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    Post by pylon1357 on Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:52 am

    Well A little late here but I am not back with my mess tin here in Peterborough. I have no idea how the heck you guys got such sharp photos of the markings on your tins. I took 30 plus photos and this one is the best of them (It still sucks)

    As can been seen, this one is marked MB 2-43 and has the British Broad Arrow. The other 1/2 is marked the same, only the broad arrow is very hard to see. I couldn't get a good pic of it at all.

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    Wgrenadier
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    Post by Wgrenadier on Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:10 am

    Hey Cliff,

    You might check to make sure that your camera is set for close objects...

    I believe your tin was made by the Metal Box Company, Limited of London.

    Here is the logo of the English firm stamped on a 1941 mess tin.
    Question about Canadian WWII Mess Tins... - Page 2 0002_m10

    Here it is on a 1943 megaphone.
    Question about Canadian WWII Mess Tins... - Page 2 000110

    Here is another similar stamp for the Indian branch of the Metal Box Company, Limited (of Bombay or Calcutta) on an Indian-made Pattern 1937 strap.
    Question about Canadian WWII Mess Tins... - Page 2 003_me10

    Lastly, here is the Indian firm stamped on some Indian-made mess tins.
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    Wgrenadier
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    Post by Wgrenadier on Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:16 am

    As for Mike's tin...

    It might have been made by Edward Smith, Limited of Staffordshire. Though this is just a guess...

    http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Edward_Smith
    Tankermike
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    Post by Tankermike on Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:27 pm

    I find the iPhone takes excellent close up shots
    ypres
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    Post by ypres on Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:56 pm

    I have several mess tins in my collection that have come with identified WWII kit groupings. None of these are dated but all are C Arrow marked. I have included photos of one of my favourites. Notice how this one has been trimmed down to nearly half its height so this guy wouldn't lug around any extra weight. Also notice his initial beside the C arrow. You can just make out a piece of the wear ever logo. Interesting as well the tin has an Italian army spoon in it.  I have seen all the Canadian makers mentioned in this thread with C arrow marks, except for the CCB made ones. I first noticed these appearing in surplus stores in the 1980's and at that time they were all unissued and in paper wrappers. For me personally, I consider them to be post war pieces.

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    Post by Wgrenadier on Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:49 pm

    Thank you very much for sharing Ypres, your insight is greatly appreciated! 2 thumbs up

    I really wish I could find a photo of Canadian troops in Canada (circa 1940-41) with mess tins, so I can figure out the appropriate type for my Hong Kong impression!
    edstorey
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    Post by edstorey on Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:53 pm

    You know the rectangular messtins were introduced by the British in April 1939 and that WWI vintage D shaped messtins were still being used when the first Canadians went to the UK in late 1939. Your image was taken in Canada in 1941 and at that time every bit of clothing and equipment in the image was at that time being made in Canada, except perhaps rifles and bayonets which were WWI left-overs, so I cannot see any reason why messtins would be an exception.
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    Post by Darktrooper on Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:51 pm

    I just picked up a CCB marked mess kit, are they aluminum?
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    Post by Wgrenadier on Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:53 pm

    Thanks Ed! It would stand to reason that the Canadian-made aluminum mess tins in this thread were in use as early as 1940-41 and would therefore be appropriate for my Hong Kong kit! 303 (I know the No.4 in the emoticon is anachronistic for this battle lol)
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    Hey Darktrooper,

    The CCB mess tins I have seen are made of aluminum, though, as ypres points out above, they may be of later production than the other makers. I see 'CCB' stamped on a lot of brass button sticks as well and I have always wondered what company it was...perhaps Canadian Copper & Brass?
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    Post by Darktrooper on Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:13 am

    Wgrenadier wrote:Thanks Ed! It would stand to reason that the Canadian-made aluminum mess tins in this thread were in use as early as 1940-41 and would therefore be appropriate for my Hong Kong kit! 303 (I know the No.4 in the emoticon is anachronistic for this battle lol)
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    Hey Darktrooper,

    The CCB mess tins I have seen are made of aluminum, though, as ypres points out above, they may be of later production than the other makers. I see 'CCB' stamped on a lot of brass button sticks as well and I have always wondered what company it was...perhaps Canadian Copper & Brass?


    Wgrenadier:

    I read somewhere aluminum wasn't magnetic so I took a couple refrigerator magnets to the CCB tins and they slid right off, so good bet they are aluminum. My tins are exactly like the CCB marked tin you posted at the beginning of the thread.
    Wgrenadier
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    Post by Wgrenadier on Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:50 pm

    Hey Darktrooper,

    It should be aluminum, and if you got the same mess tin as the ones in those pictures then it certainly is in good condition! 2 thumbs up
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    Post by Wgrenadier on Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:53 pm

    I did some research into the letters shown on the Duro mess tins, 'W.D.S. & CO.'...

    Question about Canadian WWII Mess Tins... - Page 2 Canadi11

    and I came across the following article from a 1921 copy of The American Machinist...

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    Post by Wgrenadier on Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:55 pm

    Just to sum up, here are the Canadian makers identified so far and their company information...

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    Post by Wgrenadier on Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:50 pm

    Finally, a set of dated Canadian-made mess tins! lol

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    At least we can surmise that tins by this maker were from the 40s...
    ypres
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    Post by ypres on Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:37 pm

    These tins were used by the Dutch following the war and issued to their army in the late 1940's early '50's. The MvO, stands for "Ministerie van Oorlog" ... and was stamped by the Dutch after they took possession of the tin and is not a Canadian date mark.
    48th
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    Post by 48th on Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:38 pm

    Great buy, never seen any like that before.
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    Post by Wgrenadier on Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:54 pm

    I knew MvO was some postwar European marking, but I didn't know it referred to the Dutch! Thanks Ypres! I have a large pack with the exact same stamp.

    48th - These tins aren't mine, I just found the pictures and thought I would share them here! They are an interesting set for sure!
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    Post by Wgrenadier on Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:32 pm

    Here's a stumper...

    I came across this aluminum tin stamped "S.I.CO. - 1941" on both a New Zealand museum site and a New Zealand auction site where it was paired with a Canadian Duro tin. I'm not really sure where it was made, but it has a welded handle (which is apparently very difficult to do with aluminum).

    I don't think it is an English, perhaps it could be a locally produced New Zealand example?
    Has anyone encountered this maker in Canada or have any suggestions?

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    Infanteer
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    Post by Infanteer on Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:58 am

    Having done my share of welding aluminum I can say with confidence that it's not that difficult.... not sure how this is relevant but thought I would dispel this common misperception.
    Wgrenadier
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    Post by Wgrenadier on Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:59 am

    That's good to know, thanks for sharing! Very Happy

    It must have still been more labor intensive, or expensive, than simply placing 3 rivets...
    edstorey
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    Post by edstorey on Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:34 am

    That Mess Tin does not look like a repair as I cannot see any rivet holes in the top photo.


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