Day purchase

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    thegate
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    Day purchase

    Post by thegate on Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:08 pm

    Day purchase,
    Canadian on 1916 original Pattern Oliver Leather Yoke.

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    edstorey
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    1916 Pattern Oliver

    Post by edstorey on Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:37 pm

    Nice stuff, but the Yoke dose not seem to be present in your photos.

    ypres
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    Re: Day purchase

    Post by ypres on Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:53 pm

    The Canteen Carrier straps are also missing! The actual canteen carrier is quite rare and nice to see. Is the inner bag present in the small pack ?

    Ypres

    thegate
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    Re: Day purchase

    Post by thegate on Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:50 pm

    In fact what is lacking is the support of shoulder (Shoulder straps)
    as on the photo

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    By Canteen Carrier it settles in the belt but I believe that hooks are missing.

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    edstorey
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    It is Called a Yoke

    Post by edstorey on Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:34 pm

    What you mistakenly call Shoulder Straps is actually called a Yoke. You have to stop using eBay as a reference. And as was also pointed out already, both the leather straps and hooks are missing from your Water Bottle Carrier.

    edstorey
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    1916 Pattern Oliver Image

    Post by edstorey on Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:53 pm

    Here is an image from the fitting manual that properly illustrates the set being worn.

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    ypres
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    Re: Day purchase

    Post by ypres on Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:34 pm

    Gate,

    The colour photos showing a P16 set you posted have the incorrect carrier for the canteen. It has some type of web carrying straps attaching the canteen to the set. This is not correct and should not be used as a reference. The carrier you just bought on ebay is the correct piece although, as stated, the canteen carrier attachment straps are missing.

    Ypres

    thegate
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    Re: Day purchase

    Post by thegate on Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:31 am

    Every my excuses sirs, I wanted just to show the missing York.
    Having seen your image Ed I understands better the missing parts.
    I believe that it to be difficult has to find to complete the set.

    edstorey
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    1916 Pattern Oliver Equipment

    Post by edstorey on Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:24 am

    Completing a set of 1916 Pattern Oliver Leather requires a good measure of knowledge, luck and of course money.

    thegate
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    Re: Day purchase

    Post by thegate on Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:07 am

    Yes all right with you.

    ypres
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    Re: Day purchase

    Post by ypres on Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:01 am

    I think some of the confusion here stems from the photos. I believe the first photos shown are from the incorrectly described, "Complete P16 set" listed on eBay last week (post 1), the photo of the reproduction yoke from a Californian reenactors supplier (post 4), and the photos from a Canadian dealers' website (post 4). I assume you purchased the set in post 1.

    In this photo, the canteen carrier has the correct snaps; but, the canteen carrier support straps are missing. The support straps do not have snaps. Most collectors assume the carrier is the P03 version with the shoulder strap removed and visualize the snaps attaching into the rings of the carrier. This is not correct. The rings are on the support straps and the snaps are on the carrier. One would think with the supply of P03 carriers available at the time, it would have been easier to do the reverse, this was not the case. See "Tangled Web" pg 76 Fig 128.

    Both the carrier and support straps are very rare. You have done well to find a carrier. I'm sure there are 100's of incomplete sets in Canada that need either the Yoke, the Canteen Carrier, the inner bag for the small pack, or the canteen carrier support straps.

    Ypres

    thegate
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    Re: Day purchase

    Post by thegate on Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:13 pm

    Hello guys,
    As I have already shown you my acquisition of the Canadian equipment P1916, you are not without knowing that I miss York and 2 leathers strapes for water botle. Well here is I bought good quality reproductions, but the leather is new and of clear color.
    What's to be done to age that? To use of the hanging for the leather, I thought of it but the result is not terrible. I thus called a friend who work in a museum and he gave me the thing and the most interesting is that that costs $1,50 and that takes 10 min. here is the result before and later.
    ====================================

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    Now here is the completely restored equipment.

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    York without dye

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    pylon1357
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    Re: Day purchase

    Post by pylon1357 on Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:50 am

    It looks very good to my untrained, unknowledgeable eye. Honestly, I would love a WWI uniform and kit setup, but way outside my comfort zone both in knowledge and costs.


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    ypres
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    Re: Day purchase

    Post by ypres on Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:04 am

    Gate,

    It looks good. I understand the desire to complete the set and thus the perceived "Need" to buy repro items. The issue becomes, as time goes by, the repros become original. By that I mean, the fact they are repros becomes lost as the items change hands. I don't even think this is done maliciously; it just happens. I know a very serious collector who thinks he owns an original Pattern 1899 yoke with all the fittings. I knew the first owner who had an original valise I tried to get. When we were discussing the valise he told me he had the yoke made up for the 1967 centennial. He passed away, the next owner also passed, and the present owner is convinced the yoke is real. Even though I related the facts to him, he is convinced it is real. That repro yoke is almost 50 years old at this point, and if you saw it you would be convinced of its originality. When the present owner sells, it will command a premium price partly because of the collectors reputation, even though in my mind it is worthless as a collectors item. May I suggest you mark these items on the reverse as repros, so the next owner knows what they are buying. I have examined the repro items closely and they are not perfect and can still be identified as repros by a collector who has seen the original. A new collector will have nothing to compare it to, and their desire to have the item, will convince them of their authenticity.

    Ypres

    edstorey
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    Reproductions

    Post by edstorey on Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:39 am

    Rick, you have made some good observations concerning reproductions and their legacy.

    ED

    thegate
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    Re: Day purchase

    Post by thegate on Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:11 am

    Hi guys, thank you, I find the good effect too and the purpose is to be able to show the equipment rather than to leave it in a box.I understands Ypres, good on, it is already made. Every part is identified as "REPRO"
    Look at the effect this morning when the leather is very dry.

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    Wgrenadier
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    Re: Day purchase

    Post by Wgrenadier on Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:53 pm

    ypres wrote:Gate,

    It looks good. I understand the desire to complete the set and thus the perceived "Need" to buy repro items. The issue becomes, as time goes by, the repros become original. By that I mean, the fact they are repros becomes lost as the items change hands. I don't even think this is done maliciously; it just happens. I know a very serious collector who thinks he owns an original Pattern 1899 yoke with all the fittings. I knew the first owner who had an original valise I tried to get. When we were discussing the valise he told me he had the yoke made up for the 1967 centennial. He passed away, the next owner also passed, and the present owner is convinced the yoke is real. Even though I related the facts to him, he is convinced it is real. That repro yoke is almost 50 years old at this point, and if you saw it you would be convinced of its originality. When the present owner sells, it will command a premium price partly because of the collectors reputation, even though in my mind it is worthless as a collectors item. May I suggest you mark these items on the reverse as repros, so the next owner knows what they are buying. I have examined the repro items closely and they are not perfect and can still be identified as repros by a collector who has seen the original. A new collector will have nothing to compare it to, and their desire to have the item, will convince them of their authenticity.

    Ypres

    Good point Ypres! This is why I avoid collecting leather mostly. Webbing, luckily, cannot be duplicated with modern looms, so it is far safer to collect in my opinion...

    By the way, great set up and display TheGate! :)

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