Why?

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    edstorey
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    Why?

    Post by edstorey on Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:44 pm

    These two images were taken at the Petawawa 150th Anniversary parade. Do these uniforms really honour anyone? Do they show any 'history'? Why do units continue with these dress up charades?

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    George G
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    Re: Why?

    Post by George G on Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:24 pm

    Explain yourself Pls.

    edstorey
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    Why?

    Post by edstorey on Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:03 am

    Look how bad the uniforms are.

    pylon1357
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    Re: Why?

    Post by pylon1357 on Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:25 am

    They appear to be somewhat ill-fitting, but do represent the history of our uniforms. Shame they could not have been better.


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    2ndAIF
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    Re: Why?

    Post by 2ndAIF on Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:55 am

    I'm with you Ed! Although I don't feel like I am authorised to comment on Canadian re-enactors but my god they have spread into Australia now like wild fire, a couple of years ago there were none but suddenly since the 100th anniversary of WW1 they are bloody everywhere, nothing is historically correct or sacred and they all dress up for the 'cool factor' yet claim be be preserving the memory of Anzac but do nothing of the sort... They do a couple of dress up days and suddenly become experts! I won't begin to even mention the original gear they use and destroy either... Aaaargh!

    Tankermike
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    Re: Why?

    Post by Tankermike on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:49 pm

    I see nothing wrong with showing the military history, too bad the tunics were not badged up, but the average person would not know.

    I would guess most soldiers looking at the SWW uniforms would be commenting on how hot the wool uniform would be, not the lack of details.

    edstorey
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    Why?

    Post by edstorey on Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:10 pm

    The charade goes well beyond the lack of badges and ill fitting uniforms. The whole mess looks like someone emptied a trunk of junk uniforms and figured they were 'good enough' to wear on parade. The mistakes is too long for me to list, even the Anklets are worn backwards with the tabs on the inside....

    There is nothing wrong with showing military history, when it is shown correctly. There was no history in that dogs breakfast.

    48th
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    Re: Why?

    Post by 48th on Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:26 pm

    I believe any form of remembrance is a good thing.
    I can pick out incorrect things at almost every parade or function. I am just thankful and find it heat warming that they even bother to turn up. I don't see many people 16-30 years old lining up to take part unfortunately.

    edstorey
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    Why?

    Post by edstorey on Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:17 am

    Sure mistakes happen, but shabby, ill-fitting and faded uniforms is a joke - especially as part of a civic/military parade.

    zak9990
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    360 pound Fallschirmjager!

    Post by zak9990 on Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:54 am

    Really, a paratrooper! The Junkers wouldn't have got off the ground........I think he should have picked a Herman Goring uniform............
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    CampX
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    Re: Why?

    Post by CampX on Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:27 am

    I was asked on Friday,if I would be willing to lead the Change of Command Parade for the GGHG later this year.
    I am to do this riding a repro WW1 Motorcycle and dressed as a DR from the 4 CMR,
    I truly hope I can get this to be as properly as possible.
    I am looking for a good qulity WW1 Uniform ( repro) now.

    Dean

    recceboy
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    Re: Why?

    Post by recceboy on Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:45 pm

    To display a unit's history can be great pride to do so, from soldiers in period uniforms to historical vehicles on display, no matter if they don't fit just right, it display's a historical perspective into not on the unit's history but our great nation. Trying to find the right people can be very hard to fit into"period" uniforms and they might not fit, but it shouldn't sully any event. Comes down to time and what is available , I see nothing wrong with it. I would have given them support for doing it, as our history is so often forgotten .

    My 2 cents

    Cameraguy
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    Re: Why?

    Post by Cameraguy on Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:16 pm

    recceboy wrote:To display a unit's history can be great pride to do so, from soldiers in period uniforms to historical vehicles on display, no matter if they don't fit just right, it display's a historical perspective into not on the unit's history but our great nation. Trying to find the right people can be very hard to fit into"period" uniforms and they might not fit, but it shouldn't sully any event. Comes down to time and what is available , I see nothing wrong with it. I would have given them support for doing it, as our history is so often forgotten .

    My 2 cents

    Exactly...agreed. If possible to make the impression any closer to fact with what is available,then of course,do it. If not...good on them for getting our history out there again to remind people,and to remember.

    48th
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    Re: Why?

    Post by 48th on Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:07 pm

    Any act of remembrance is a good thing in my books, especially when young people are involved.

    edstorey
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    Why?

    Post by edstorey on Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:04 am

    This was a parade marking a civic anniversary, not a remembrance service. If it was a remembrance service how poorly dressed do the participants have to be before it becomes a mockery of who they are trying to remember - clown suits with helmets on, blue-jeans and T shirts with badges? Apparently doing things correctly or any set of standards does not matter any more. Wrong is wrong, and accepting wrong perpetrates the myth that standards do not matter and that these old uniforms are merely props.

    The surprising part is people who apparently demand exacting standards and quality in their collections are so willing except this poor presentation with such laissez-faire.

    Ian B
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    Helping Hand?

    Post by Ian B on Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:02 am

    Ed,

    I get your point.  If it's worth doing, then it's worth doing right.  However, it's after the fact and nothing can be done about this particular incident now.  You ARE entitled to your opinion, and I support that.  I just wish you would find a better way to say it.  The feeling I get reading your posts is one of dismissal, derision and condescension (I will say that may not be your intent).

    You have posted at least one picture of yourself playing "dress-up" on this forum, and from what I saw, it looked historically accurate.  Kudos to you on that.  You have also contributed material and your son(?) to the Legion Magazine for one of their articles.  Again, kudos to you.  I think we all get that you appreciate an accurate presentation.  However, you have also slammed others on this forum before for being too old to represent Medical Services of the First World War.  Did you know the whole back story about why they dress up like this??  Maybe they had relatives who served as Doctors/Nurses/Medics in WW I.  If everything else, uniform and equipment was correct, then why slag them on age.  Their form of remembrance is just as valid as yours is.

    What I want to know, what have you done in the interim to alleviate the situation that happened in Petawawa?  Have you contacted anyone there and offered your services, advice or material so that the next time it will be better?  Could you recommend someone who is a knowledgeable collector to assist them?And if you're not in Pet, then do you do this in your local area.  As an ex-WO, I feel it is our responsibility to help, encourage and assist the others in our hobby and provide leadership to those who want to know more.  If you finished your service as a Senior NCO then I ask you to show that leadership in a more positive manner.  Slagging someone does nobody any good and creates hard feelings.

    My opinion is that that there is a better way to get things done.  When you see stuff like that, take a deep breath, repeat the "Serenity Prayer" and set about correcting things in a positive manner.

    Pro Patria!!

    Ian

    edstorey
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    Why?

    Post by edstorey on Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:55 am

    Ian:

    You make great points that I respect and yes I do tend to be harsh when I respond. Like you pointed out this post is well after the fact, at least six months, so it is 'old news' to say the least.

    Just to bring the forum membership up to date, attempts were made to offer advice to help improve the presentation for any future events of this type; in a nutshell the offer was declined.

    Yes, I used to 'dress-up' for events and overseas trips and yes there were some errors in these presentations - but, and this is a big but, I cared enough to change any errors and take advice from those who could offer it. Researching uniforms, equipment and insignia was not easy 35 years ago, there was not a lot of information out there and finding the answers took a lot of work, small snippets of information were looked at as major finds. Now there are complete websites, books and magazines dedicated to the topic with the basics being fully documented for the casual enthusiast, yet for some reason none of these resources seem to help. Of course this is not a new phenomenon, I was recently looking at some 1967 Canadian Forces Centennial Tattoo images and was shocked to see that an organization that spent a lot of time and resources acquiring equipment and having uniforms manufactured for the show still managed to screw up how WWII soldiers wore their equipment, and this was only 22 years after the war.

    As for 'dressing up', I made a conscious point of stopping when I hit 45, I actually had made up my mind to stop at 40, but that is another story. If I require a model for a project, I now pressgang my Son who is in his early 20s and does not collect this 'junk'. Any errors in the Legion presentation are mine and I can think of two off the top of my head.

    My harsh answers, well when I see feel good responses to questions then I have to ask, 'How bad does it have to get?' or in this case from last summer, 'Was it really worth it?'

    ED

    Tankermike
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    Re: Why?

    Post by Tankermike on Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:05 pm

    "attempts were made to offer advice to help improve the presentation for any future events of this type; in a nutshell the offer was declined."

    I can just imagine your response, if it is any way similar to the way you converse with people here and other forums perhaps you should consider the way you speak to individuals.

    "If you finished your service as a Senior NCO then I ask you to show that leadership in a more positive manner. Slagging someone does nobody any good and creates hard feelings."

    I totally agree with the above statement Ian, leaders become leaders , not because of their power but because of their ability to lead.

    As for Mr Storey I feel his abrasive attitude and harsh criticism does not belong here, I put forth he should be banned from the site.




    ypres
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    Re: Why?

    Post by ypres on Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:18 pm

    Ian and Ed,

    Good points from both of you .... and may I add, the last two posts are respectful and well thought out. I started in the hobby out of admiration for those who volunteered to go to war to protect my freedom. I personally had difficulty connecting the black and white war film footage with my life and I went out looking for tangible pieces that made the events in these films more real. It is interesting how at times I forget this "Freedom" lesson and am critical of those who wish to express themselves in a different way than I think they should. Who am I to criticise a person who wants to remember in his own way.

    Similarly, I agree the errors in these "Parades" should be addressed, but I am also thankful that this group thought to include the tribute they did. I think we need to consider the motivation behind the wearing of the "Costumes" in the photos. I'm certain none of the participants meant to offend anyone when they volunteered to dress up that day. They did not wear their webbing incorrectly to upset any onlooker: for them it was a form of tribute even if many of us didn't think so .... Any form of remembrance is a good thing. This situation really has caused a great deal of discussion on the topic and has deepened my thinking on remembrance, what it means, and how it needs to be expressed. Thanks for posting the photos and starting the discussion.

    Ypres

    Ian B
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    Re: Why?

    Post by Ian B on Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:39 pm

    Ed, I appreciate your response.  I'm sorry that your offer of guidance and assistance was rebuffed.  That, then is the organizer's problem, not yours.  I would suggest that you not give up, and try again the next time you hear of another event like last year.  Or, as I said, suggest someone else that may be knowledgeable enough to assist them.  Give them at least one more chance.  Everyone deserves that much if you've only broached this subject to them once.  And I would suggest, you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. For all that, keep your input coming.

    Ypres, thanks for your comments, much appreciated.

    Mike, I have to disagree.  I would not want Ed to be banned or otherwise ostracized in any way.  We are all entitled to our opinion.  If you disagree with someone, put forward your point of view.  The person may not agree, but hopefully will acknowledge your POV.  Try not to let anything get under your skin, it just leads to high blood pressure and an sour frame of mind.  If someone is going to be negative to your comments, as I said, that is their problem.  Try not to make it yours.  

    To everyone following this thread...again, I suggest you recall the Serenity Prayer...Courage to change the things you can, serenity to accept the things you can't and the wisdom to know the difference.  This hobby is our collective passion and we get very emotionally engaged in it.  Just remember that there are a lot more important things to get upset and indignant about in this world.  Whether uniforms are correct on re-enactors, hat badges and cloth flashes are correctly identified or seemingly stupid questions are asked, will not help refugees in the Middle East, solve global warming or help a farmer grow a good crop or a fisher to haul in a good catch to support their families.  All I ask is that we all try to keep it in perspective.

    Here endeth the lesson.

    Sincerely,

    Ian

    CampX
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    Re: Why?

    Post by CampX on Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:45 am

    Yes, Ed can be somewhat "harsh" with his words, but he does know his stuff.

    One thing I will mention, is the cost.
    I am trying to get Proper WW1 Dispatch Riders uniforms together for the 4th CMR.
    Just for the Cap, Tunic and Breeches made of the proper material, I am looking at 450 pounds a set.
    This does not include the leggings, boots ect
    Yes there are cheaper sets out there, at less than half that cost..but the material is wrong ect.
    In the case of the photo, some of those wearing uniforms seem to be young, and perhaps could not find or could not afford a better rig.
    Is it possible that some of this may have been loaned to them?

    I like the idea that younger people are getting into this sort of thing, however I too wish that they were better kitted out.

    JUst My Thoughts

    Dean

    Jonhno
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    Re: Why?

    Post by Jonhno on Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:37 am

    I was going to respond before, but I can understand your frustration Ed, even after offering help, which I would have thought would be gladly taken seeing there is some sort of interest,

    here Dean a couple of pics for inspiration, in your case would the despatch rider be 4th CMR? or would they have a signal unit attached?

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    CampX
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    Re: Why?

    Post by CampX on Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:54 am

    We will have the repro WW1 Douglas Motorcycles and will be doing DR's for the CMR not sigs.

    I have been doing a lot of research and can find little about Unit Dr's, however I did find in the Canadian Military Records, the D.R C.M.R. was a an official designation within the Canadian Military establishment during WW1.

    I am trying to find out where Unit DR's wore their Badges, on the cuffs or on the arm of the uniform.

    Dean

    Bill
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    Re: Why?

    Post by Bill on Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:30 am

    Which badges Dean? The "trade" badge?

    CampX
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    Re: Why?

    Post by CampX on Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:59 pm

    Hello Bill, Yes the winged wheel badge, having problems trying to find out where the Unit DR's wore that badge.

    Dean

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