Canadian MK II Camos in England

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    Battalion Colours
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    Canadian MK II Camos in England

    Post by Battalion Colours on Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:40 am

    Does anyone own an original Canadian MK II Camo with unit decal? If yes, could you please post pictures of it. Thank you.

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    Re: Canadian MK II Camos in England

    Post by Battalion Colours on Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:41 am


    mk1rceme
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    Re: Canadian MK II Camos in England

    Post by mk1rceme on Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:28 am

    Here is an unusual camo with a painted decal. I can't recall who owns it , or what the synopsis was on it's originality. It looks darn cool though.



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    Re: Canadian MK II Camos in England

    Post by GCR817 on Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:07 am

    mk1rceme wrote:Here is an unusual camo with a painted decal. I can't recall who owns it , or what the synopsis was on it's originality. It looks darn cool though.


    Thats a very interesting helmet. It looks like the oversprayed the helmet while it had a net on it. Or maybe the colour just faded that way from having a net on it (but I expect not)? Very cool Seaforth item.

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    SLI(MG) Camo helmet

    Post by GCR817 on Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:10 am

    This one was just offered to me and is reported to belong to the Saskatoon Light Infantry from the Italian campaign. I have only seen this single picture and am awaiting better ones including an interior. Apparently the soldiers number is painted inside? If it turns out to be good, I may add it my collection and will post better pictures for your enjoyment.

    Cheers,

    Geoff



    Last edited by GCR817 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    PPCLI Camo

    Post by GCR817 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:18 pm

    I have posted more pictures of this helmet in a seperate post, but am adding one here as it fits the theme.

    Geoff


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    Re: Canadian MK II Camos in England

    Post by mk1rceme on Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:23 pm

    GCR817 wrote:
    mk1rceme wrote:Here is an unusual camo with a painted decal. I can't recall who owns it , or what the synopsis was on it's originality. It looks darn cool though.


    Thats a very interesting helmet. It looks like the oversprayed the helmet while it had a net on it. Or maybe the colour just faded that way from having a net on it (but I expect not)? Very cool Seaforth item.

    I have more pics of this one if you want to get a better overall look at it.


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    Re: Canadian MK II Camos in England

    Post by GCR817 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:28 pm

    mk1rceme wrote:
    GCR817 wrote:
    mk1rceme wrote:Here is an unusual camo with a painted decal. I can't recall who owns it , or what the synopsis was on it's originality. It looks darn cool though.


    Thats a very interesting helmet. It looks like the oversprayed the helmet while it had a net on it. Or maybe the colour just faded that way from having a net on it (but I expect not)? Very cool Seaforth item.

    I have more pics of this one if you want to get a better overall look at it.

    Dale,

    Will you please post the other pics. I would love to see them.

    Geoff

    PS: Do you know the owner of this helmet? It is a great piece.

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    Re: Canadian MK II Camos in England

    Post by mk1rceme on Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:38 pm

    I can't recall the owner of it. I remember it being shown on MCF...I just hope Roger Honts doesn't own it hmmm

    I'll snoop around on there and see if I can locate the post again. Maybe Jeff or Cliff saw it on there as well.

    I like this helmet but I'm not quite certain about it. To me, it looks contrived but I don't claim to be an expert on helmets. The red and blue tints made me wonder though.











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    Re: Canadian MK II Camos in England

    Post by Hambone on Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:45 pm

    mk1rceme wrote:I can't recall the owner of it. I remember it being shown on MCF...I just hope Roger Honts doesn't own it hmmm

    I'll snoop around on there and see if I can locate the post again. Maybe Jeff or Cliff saw it on there as well.

    I like this helmet but I'm not quite certain about it. To me, it looks contrived but I don't claim to be an expert on helmets. The red and blue tints made me wonder though.

    Gentlemen,
    The helmet is mine. I purchased it off a Gunbroker auction in Aug. 2009 for $90 identified as a "US WW1 helmet". I never posted it at MCF. I was a moderator at MCF at one time and resigned after learning what was going on. I am moderator at Gunboards and The K98k Forum. I've been collecting WW2 combat helmets, particularly camoflaged, particularly German for over 25 years. The hobby is filled with fakes. I think this helmet legitimate. The pics posted here are mine, I took hirez versions and provided them to Clive Law for his upcoming book at his request. These pics look to be the hirez copies I provided to Clive privately, or they were lifted from these threads:

    http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7251
    http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?734-OT-Canadian-Seaforth-Highander-MkII-helmet-ID-d

    If posted anywhere else it was without my knowledge or consent. There can be no claim of mystery from whence the pics came, unless they are being circulated. After researching a great deal, I think is 100% original from a thrice wounded Canadian combat vet from the Italian theatre. For $90 I couldn't make a mistake Wink I have the auction saved for reference.
    Kind regards,
    HB

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    Re: Canadian MK II Camos in England

    Post by mk1rceme on Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:04 am

    Hello and welcome Hambone! I remember you from MCF in the "better" days...if there was such a time. When I used to collect Third Reich I learned a lot by just reading your posts. I don't really dabble in the dark side anymore but I still have a small collection of items left.

    I'm still stumped on where I got these from. I may have seen them in a thread about WWII helmet camouflage on a kiwi collectors forum...Just a guess though. Since I am a camo collector I have accumulated a large photo reference over the years...but by all means, if you want them removed, I will remove them.

    Congratulations for owning such a great looking helmet.


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    Re: Canadian MK II Camos in England

    Post by Hambone on Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:37 am

    Hello Dale,
    Recognized the screen name. MCF served a valuable purpose in showing the inherent (and concealed and latent) problems at another place, and resulted in the formation of the only other real worthwhile German helmet forum on the net, but beyond that there were, uh, problems at that top so to speak hmmm Glad to see another Commonwealth forum.

    If these showed up at MCF it wasn't me as I've been long gone and never went back even after invitation of "new management". I think it's now deceased completely.

    On this helmet, my concern about it was the hand painted regimental flash which had the cypher L and coronet. I was told by various folks on the forums that this was incorrect on an OR/EM helmet. However, I researched the unit history and found the opposite. There were the issue helmet transfers and badges, which were incorrect, then there is the flash on this helmet and privated purchased badges with the cypher and coronet which are the correct ones per Seaforth order:

    "Officially, the regimental cap badge is described in General Order No. 111 of 1923 as: "In silver, a stag's head, with the letter 'L' and a coronet, set between the antlers, the whole resting on a scroll bearing the Gaelic motto 'CUIDICH'N RIGH'." . . . The hat badge supplied to the unit before and during the war did not conform to that worn by the affiliated regiment, and despite unending correspondence over a decade, the Seaforths were unable to have the badge they wanted issued to them. Consequently, the Seaforths had their badges privately manufactured to ensure its conformity with the "imperial" Seaforths."
    - Footnote 19, page 52, "The Seaforth Highlanders of Canada 1919/1965" by R.H. Roy


    Good to see you again and glad to find another good Canadian/Commonwealth forum!
    Cheers,
    HB

    EDIT:
    "Since I am a camo collector I have accumulated a large photo reference over the years...but by all means, if you want them removed, I will remove them."

    Dale, thanks for expressing that but no need. I'm here to learn like everyone else and if my pics assist that, then great. My only issue would be no back story or information as developed on the thread linked came over with the helmet. The historical information, research, and even the circumstances of the purchase, are pretty significant, IMHO, to a discussion of the helmet.


    Last edited by Hambone on Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Canadian MK II Camos in England

    Post by Hambone on Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:13 am

    A pic in the regimental history shows camo helmets, which are apparently this one. The camo paint was spray applied over a net. The flash was hand painted with the same colors as the camo apparently. They were probably doing vehicles or gear at the same time. The regimental history lists K54070 as Pte. Pike, W.D., which was also the name in the rim of the helmet not advertised. Pte. Pike served with the Seaforth's 30 Apr 1943 through 4 Apr 1944. He was wounded three times while with the unit, the third wound while patrolling at Crecchio against the German 755th Regt. ended his service with the Seaforth's and he was sent home. History of wound dates and where:

    K54070 Pte. PIKE, W.D. Service with Seaforths 30.Apr.43 - 4.Apr.44

    Wounded: 5 Aug. 43 - July 1943 in Operation Husky, the invasion of Sicily. The beach landing was relatively uneventful but the Seaforths would soon see hard battles as they fought veteran German units for hilltop town after hilltop town through Valguarnera, Leonforte, Nissoria, Agira and Reegalbuto, to Adrano.

    Wounded: 17 Dec. 43 - From December 6 to 22 the 1st Division advanced only 6 km from the Moro River to the edge of a small town named Ortona. Wounded while attacking through an olive grove while riding/dismounting from Sherman tanks.

    Wounded: 4 Apr. 44 - Crecchio area of Italy in Ortona area doing patrolling. Enemy - German 755th Regt., 334th Division.
    From Ortona the Seaforths continued to move north fighting through the Liri Valley and breaking through the Hitler Line, the Germans' second defensive line. This was the hardest fought battle for the Seaforths of the entire Italian campaign. At one point on the afternoon of 23 May 1944, the Seaforths, having taken the line, repelled a German counter attack, and when the Germans pulled off only eight soldiers remained, commanded by C Company Sergeant Major J.M. Duddle

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    Re: Canadian MK II Camos in England

    Post by Bill on Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:44 am

    Hi Hambone, Seems like we all migrate around the net to sites of similar interest.
    Your analysis, that the badge painted on the helmet was the official, authorized badge is correct. The Seaforth's had a very difficult time with badge approvals.
    Another discussion of this helmet can be seen at http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7251&highlight=seaforth+helmet

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    Re: Canadian MK II Camos in England

    Post by Hambone on Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:10 am

    Yep, Bill, the collecting community is rather small, relatively speaking. I've always had a great deal of interest in Canadian/Commonwealth WW2. I've got MkI, II, and III helmets. Finding an original camoflaged WW2 MkII is tougher than finding a German camoflaged helmet, IMHO. I believe this is due to the huge numbers of MkIIs that were recycled and used after WW2, and particularly sold to other countries, such as Pakistan, India, Israel, etc. No one was bringing MkIIs home in their original trim as "war souvenirs" like German helmets. Same goes for US M1 helmets.

    This Seaforth helmet is more signficant to me than any number of German helmets I have that I paid over 10x the price for. I'm reading up on the Seaforths in Italy and it really personalizes the helmet. I am reading of the very actions, days, and events where this helmet was, with Pte. Pike. Good stuff, very brave and hard fighting men who took an inordinate amount of casualties and faced down the Germans in Italy, which was, IMHO, some of the toughest fighting in WW2.

    Regards,
    HB

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