WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

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    Darrell
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    WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by Darrell on Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:13 am

    Hi

    My small results from the Oromocto Show on Sat.





    Along with a usual Class A badge I picked up an earlier "Canadian Patriotic Fund" marked one as well as a Class B War Service Badge (WSB) for Canadians from WW1.

    The Class B is also sometimes called the "Silver Wound Badge" (after what Brits call it) but more properly in Canada it is the Class B WSB as Brits didn't have any other versions.

    I have a Class C example but will keep looking for a Class AA to the Navy to complete the WW1 versions.

    More here: http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/cmdp/mainmenu/group08

    Collecting WSBs is a nice little side-line collecting theme of mine. Other than desiring the ones that were issued to the men and women whose medals I have, I am always looking for the different versions un-attributed to medal holders. No rush to complete the collection of all versions and just buy when the price is right. The WW2 General Service/Service General ones have the most variety in regard to language, construction, and fasteners.

    Maybe I'll do up a reference thread on WSBs in the Fall.

    regards
    Darrell

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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by mk1rceme on Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:28 am

    Very nice badges...I have always admired these but haven't seen to many come up for sale around here. I have several of the WWII GS badges and one GVW(great war veteran) badge. I think it may be a legion badge of some sort.


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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by Darrell on Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:30 pm

    Hi Dale

    Can't say I see them every day either but the CPF version is certainly least common. Class B and the odd Class C badges do come up but seem to get snapped up pretty quick. I certainly have not seen many Class AA Navy ones. The problem with the WW1 ones is that there is no way to find out to whom they were issued. Best one can do is hope for an entry on the Service File and then try and find the badge.

    For WW2 Army, at least there is a roll of their serial numbers that will give you the Regt'l number and name of the soldier it was issued to. I have a private researcher do my look-ups in Ottawa. There is usually an entry in those file too as to what number GS badge they got.

    WW2 GS WSBs I have:

    Sterling "General Service" Screwpost
    Sterling "Service General" Screwpost
    Sterling "General Service" Vertical pin
    Enameled "General Service" Screwpost
    Enameled "General Service" Butoniere back
    Enameled "Service General" Butoniere back
    Enameled "General Service" Vertical pin

    WW2 GS WSBs I need:

    Sterling "General Service" Butoniere back
    Sterling "Service General" Butoniere back
    Sterling "Service General" Vertical pin
    Enameled "Service General" Vertical pin
    Enemeled "Service General" Screwpost

    but am unsure if they even exist. I'm just extrapolating from the possible combinations of construction, language and fasteners. If anyone has an example of those I need, I would be pleased to at least have confirmation they exist.

    Thanks.

    regards
    Darrell

    *Edited to change got/want list*


    Last edited by Darrell on Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:51 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by pylon1357 on Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:19 pm

    Congrats on the early CPF badge. I cannot recall if I have that one or not. I did manage a Navy AA badge some years back. Still hunting for a Korea War Service Badge


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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by Darrell on Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:32 pm

    Hi Cliff

    Well done on having a Class AA. Do you recall if they have a serial #?

    I imagine the Firefighters one will be the greatest challenge to get!! :idea:

    regards
    Darrell

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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by mk1rceme on Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:05 pm

    All my WWII GS badges have the screw post...I actually thought that was how all of them were made. Learn something new everyday Very Happy

    Here is my Great War Veteran badge. I haven't seen another like it yet but I'm sure there must be lots of them out there.






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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by pylon1357 on Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:05 am

    Darrell, Honestly, I can not recall for certain but I do believe it is numbered on the reverse. It is in a display at home so at the moment I am unable to check the badge to see if it is in fact numbered. I know the Overseas Firefighter Badges are numbered upon issue. The one I have however is an unissued example and has no number on the reverse.

    Dale: I do believe the badge you show was issued by the British Legion. Again, not at home so I have no access to my records or files.


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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by Darrell on Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:18 pm

    Hi Cliff

    Not to worry. I'm in no hurray. :)

    Cool that you have a Firefighters one too; numbered or not!! :cheers:

    I do not think Dale's badge is British though, as it has a Maple leaf motif in the centre. I was led to believe the G.W.V. were a separate private organization away from the Royal Legion. I could be wrong of course. Not an "Official" badge within the realm of the Govm't issue ones I collect so I haven't pursued the deatils of it.

    Hi Dale

    Please find attached the front and rears of those WW2 WSB's that I do have. Top row L to R is Sterling English Screwback, Sterling French Screwback, and Sterling English Vertical pin. Bottom Row L to R is Enamel English Screwback (note the screw is silver too!), Enamel French Butoniere back, and Enamel English Butoniere back.





    Again if anyone can show me an example of those I do not have (listed in prev post) I'd appreciate at least knowing they exist.

    regards
    Darrell

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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by mk1rceme on Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:39 pm

    Geez...you and Cliff have some great looking badges! I have never seen them with with anything except the screw posts...those are awesome!

    I found a little bit of info on the GWVA...they were a rowdy bunch for sure! Predecessors of the Legion apparently.

    http://www.jrank.org/history/pages/7325/Great-War-Veterans-Association.html

    Formed in Winnipeg in April 1917 to unite scattered local associations of largely disabled returned soldiers, the GWVA supported conscription, condemned ‘enemy aliens’, and urged members to forget rank and address each other as ‘Comrade’. Some members organized anti-alien and racial riots 1917 – 19 . When able-bodied veterans returned in 1919 , membership soared to 350,000 and The Veteran became the largest circulation magazine in Canada, but demands for a billion dollars in bonuses for lost earnings led to a split. More radical members created a Grand Army of United Veterans. Moderate leaders like future CCF MP C. Grant MacNeil made the GWVA a voice for pensioners and the disabled and won a royal commission in 1924 that responded to many grievances. However, loss of members and scandals over the Poppy Fund and other efforts to finance its programs led to further fragmentation. The GWVA's decline led to its replacement by the Canadian Legion in 1926 .



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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by pylon1357 on Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:15 am

    WOW excellent information once again on an often overlooked piece of militaria. Darrell, having looked again at the badge that Dale posted, I must agree, it certainly looks Canadian and not British. Funny how I never noticed the Maple Leaf motif in the center before. I thought I had seen a few of these in the past, but now I may very well incorrect.

    Dale, love the information you dug up on this group.


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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by RCN Sailor on Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:34 am

    The subject of Canadian service pins/badges is a whole collection unto itself. Years ago I had all the dated WW1 Class A badges but moved them on.

    If you are getting into this area I highly recommend the late Robbie Johnson's book on this subject.

    Ed

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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by Darrell on Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:55 am

    Hi

    Ed, good advice and I see Bill is selling one right now. However unless he wants to do some "trading" for modern patches, I'll have to pass.

    Please find below another recent aquisition; an English enamel example to a female. Like the Franco enameled butoniere one above, it appears the be somewhat "laquered ". What does the book say about that?





    regards
    Darrell

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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by Darrell on Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:04 pm

    Hi

    And another joins the fold.

    An ebay pickup of the WW1 Franco version of the "Applicant for Enlistment" badge.

    regards
    Darrell






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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by pylon1357 on Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:28 am

    Good score on that one Darrell, These french Applicant or Enlistment badges are not common at all. To really appreciate these badges, one has to understand why they were awarded.

    They were awarded to a person who voluntarily applied for military service, but were rejected through no fault of their own. Now what that number was in total, I am not sure, however, I assume the number was not staggeringly high. Now add to that the fact this was a french speaking applicant that was refused service, this would be a much smaller number.

    I have had one in my collection for quite sometime now. Once something comes into my collection, I no longer keep an eye for an example. But I Must admit, I have not seen many around at all.


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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by Darrell on Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:55 pm

    Hi Cliff

    Oh, I appreciate it all right!! Especially since my English cost $20 in Calgary in Aug and this Franco one was only $15!!! To me, I got a deal on both.

    And yes, they don't come up too often. I have been looking and can confirm this is the first Franco one I've seen this year. Mind you, I don't search every dealer site in the world either. I see a gap in a collection and pursue filling it. (Ask me how long it took me to find a Battle of Britain Bar to complete my WW2 Stars and Bars collection!!!) And even then, when I get the item I want, I usually watch when others appear to see what they go for.

    Oh, and you should sell me your Firefighters one!! :lol: Wink

    regards
    Darrell

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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by Battalion Colours on Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:28 pm



    Some of these badges are numbered. Can these numbers be used to identify the recipient?


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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by Darrell on Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:26 pm

    Hi BC

    I am not aware of any ledgers in Ottawa that may hold lists for these "Applicant for Enlistment" badges.

    Info from another Forum (CEF Study Group)indicates that it is possible for some War Service Badges from WW1 and 2 to be researched though:
    http://www.cefresearch.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7918
    The legers are found in RG 38, Department of Veterans Affairs fond, 27, War Service Badge Number Ledgers [textual record] (2003-01458-6)

    The description of the records state:

    The accession contains ledgers which list the Service Badge numbers for soldiers discharged after the First and Second World Wars. Each entry in the ledgers contains a record of the veteran's name, regimental number, serial number of the badge and the date of issuance. In most instances, the information in the ledgers can be found on the First World War and Second World War personnel files. However, there are instances where the pairing of the name of the veteran with a badge number is unique. Also, the sequentially numbered ledgers can provide an alternative method of obtaining access to the personnel records of the veteran. The Personnel Records Unit of LAC can match badge numbers against regimental numbers when only the former is known. Boxes 1-11 contain Army ledgers from the Second World War, with the following war service badge numbers: Box 1: 000100-085099; Box 2: 085100-192099; Box 3: 200100-326499; Box 4: 327000-448999; Box 5: 451100-630662; Box 6: 630663-729983; Box 7: 729984-800099; Box 8: 830100-930667; Box 9: 930668-1070015; Box 10: 1070016-1471999. Box 11 contains one Army ledger from the Second World War with war service badge numbers 402000-1158999 and RCAF ledgers from the Second World War with war service badge numbers 058000-139999. Boxes 12-15 contain RCAF ledgers from the Second World War, with the following war service badge numbers: Box 12: 140061-238297; Box 13: 245100-445999; Box 14: 448350-797604; Box 15: 797605-1464980. Box 16 contains Navy (WREN & MEN) ledgers from the Second World War and First World War Class B and Class C ledgers (war service badge numbers: 13001-39820). Box 17 contains First World War Class C ledgers (war service badge numbers: 40001-various numbers). Box 18 features five volumes of miscellaneous Army ledgers. Boxes 19-21 contain First World War Class A ledgers, with the following war service badge numbers: Box 19: 183551-343000; Box 20: 343001-429960. Box 21 contains a First World War Class A ledger (war service badge numbers: 372092-392720) and a First World War Class A and Women RCA ledger (war service badge numbers: 1158671-1158870).

    I haven't sought any info on WW1 WSBs but have had success using a private researcher for some of my WW2 ones.

    regards
    Darrell

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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by Darrell on Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:04 am

    Hi

    But I did see this on eBay:

    http://cgi.ebay.ca/ENLISTMENT-BADGE-PIN-CANADIAN-ARMY-1945-/250736624336?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a611142d0



    So, maybe.

    The cert seems to be the same type of printed fabric as the GS cards for that time too.

    regards
    Darrell

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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by 37patt on Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:16 pm

    Picked up a bunch of Canadian badges and cloth at an auction near Ottawa saturday. One of the more interesting ones is the Korean War Service pin.
    Would like to post a picture but once again am having a miserable time of it. Will try later.

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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by Darrell on Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:46 am

    Hi patt

    Please let me know if you wish to move that Korea pin along. That one is missing from my collection at the moment.

    Sorry I cannot help with posting pics. I just re-read the tutorial and hope you can manage.

    Auction and house sale items can be pretty neat and I hope you are able to show us.

    regards
    Darrell

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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by 37patt on Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:48 pm

    Don't know if this is in the right place, but I have a yahoo email account. Will that prevent me from posting images into the forum?

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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by 37patt on Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:50 pm

    Darrell
    I'm keeping the Korean War service pin - sorry, but would like to show the forum the pin.
    Still trying but OMG frustrating!!

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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by Darrell on Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:02 am

    Hi patt

    Nothing to be sorry for. If I don't ask then I'd never get, right? Very Happy

    Pics on the Forum? I have yahoo and that shouldn't matter at all. I open a posting, write what I want and to add a pic, I click "host and image" above (4th box from the right).

    That opens a small window where I click browse and select the image from wherever it is in my computer. Ensure that file is ticked if it's coming from your computer files.

    Once the image file ID is in the box beside browse, I click "host it" at the bottom. Another window appears and I click on the centre line (image:) until the file is all blue, then right click on the blue and click "copy" from those right click selections. I click the "host an image" up top again to get rid of the boxes, and right click and "paste" the line into my message field et viola.........

    Hope that is of some help.

    regards
    Darrell


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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by 37patt on Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:04 pm

    Hello all, and thanks Darrell for the encouragement, here are the pictures of the Korean War Service pin I picked up last weekend.

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    Re: WW1 "CPF" Class A and a Class B Badge

    Post by jholl72 on Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:08 pm

    That is an awesome pin. Had no idea they were even issued. My uncle was in Korea with PPCLI and I now have another item to search for to put in my Korea era collection. Thanks for sharing it! party2


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