Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

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    GCR817
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    Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by GCR817 on Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:26 pm

    One of my favourites. A Mk III with textured charcoal colour overpaint and decal to the Regina Rifles. The owner's number is painted inside and some research revealed the following:

    L28213
    A/Cpl Dzubinski, J.
    B Company, Regina Rifles
    embarked 2 Jun 44 for France
    Disembarked 6 June 44 France

    How is that for a D Day provincence?





    mk1rceme
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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by mk1rceme on Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:28 pm

    Another Fantastic helmet! I have one exactly like it with a painted decal. Not named though.


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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by GCR817 on Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:44 pm

    Well done! By any chance is it the one that was on eBay recently?

    Cheers,

    Geoff

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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by mk1rceme on Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:53 pm

    No, but a very similar one. Mine has a better decal on it.

    By chance, did you know the seller?


    Last edited by Admin on Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by Battalion Colours on Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:56 pm

    GCR817 wrote:One of my favourites. A Mk III with textured charcoal colour overpaint and decal to the Regina Rifles. The owner's number is painted inside and some research revealed the following:

    L28213
    A/Cpl Dzubinski, J.
    B Company, Regina Rifles
    embarked 2 Jun 44 for France
    Disembarked 6 June 44 France

    How is that for a D Day provincence?








    This is an absolutely gorgeous MK III!

    With that said, painted unit emblems bring up many unanswered questions. Ask yourself the following:

    -If the Canadian Army issued unit helmet decals, then why paint them on?
    -Were decals primarily issued during the early years of the war (i.e. 1939 to 1943)?
    -Where and when did the unit serve?
    -What type of helmet (i.e. M K II, M K III)?
    -Is the painted emblem multi color or single color? If single color, then it's most likely the emblem was painted on using a stencil.

    Most anything is possible from the Italian theatre of operations, but Western Europe is a different matter.

    This is one area where much research needs to be done.

    Adam

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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by mk1rceme on Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:24 pm

    Excerpt from "Tin Lids, Canadian Combat Helmets" by Roger V. Lucy. Which states:

    HELMET FLASHES

    "Forbidden in Canada, these flashes were permitted by Canadian Military Headquarters in London which had overall control over Canadian forces overseas. These insignia were in the form of decals or small painted designs, and remained optional although mostly considered an asset to unit pride.
    Helmet flashes were positioned on the left side of the helmet,even if this was not always strictly obeyed."


    I also have a book from a now deceased veteran and friend, who also recalls a story about painting helmet flashes on a friends helmet who later was killed in action. He found the helmet in a pile of equipment returned from the battlfield, half buried in the mud. I remember him telling me that it was nearly impossible to find a decal of your parent unit anywhere in QM stores so most soldiers either painted the insignia themselves or had an artistic fellow in their unit do it for them. He said he usually got smokes for his time and effort.


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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by Battalion Colours on Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:52 pm

    Admin wrote:Excerpt from "Tin Lids, Canadian Combat Helmets" by Roger V. Lucy. Which states:

    HELMET FLASHES

    "Forbidden in Canada, these flashes were permitted by Canadian Military Headquarters in London which had overall control over Canadian forces overseas. These insignia were in the form of decals or small painted designs, and remained optional although mostly considered an asset to unit pride.

    Helmet flashes were positioned on the left side of the helmet,even if this was not always strictly obeyed."


    I also have a book from a now deceased veteran and friend, who also recalls a story about painting helmet flashes on a friends helmet who later was killed in action. He found the helmet in a pile of equipment returned from the battlfield, half buried in the mud. I remember him telling me that it was nearly impossible to find a decal of your parent unit anywhere in QM stores so most soldiers either painted the insignia themselves or had an artistic fellow in their unit do it for them. He said he usually got smokes for his time and effort.

    Dale


    How many Canadian MK IIs and MK IIIs have you seen with painted regimental emblems? How many do you think were wartime originals?

    I believe such exist, but most I've seen were most likely done postwar. Some were done in recent years by unscrupulous dealers.

    Adam

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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by mk1rceme on Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:58 pm

    Battalion Colours wrote:
    Admin wrote:Excerpt from "Tin Lids, Canadian Combat Helmets" by Roger V. Lucy. Which states:

    HELMET FLASHES

    "Forbidden in Canada, these flashes were permitted by Canadian Military Headquarters in London which had overall control over Canadian forces overseas. These insignia were in the form of decals or small painted designs, and remained optional although mostly considered an asset to unit pride.

    Helmet flashes were positioned on the left side of the helmet,even if this was not always strictly obeyed."


    I also have a book from a now deceased veteran and friend, who also recalls a story about painting helmet flashes on a friends helmet who later was killed in action. He found the helmet in a pile of equipment returned from the battlfield, half buried in the mud. I remember him telling me that it was nearly impossible to find a decal of your parent unit anywhere in QM stores so most soldiers either painted the insignia themselves or had an artistic fellow in their unit do it for them. He said he usually got smokes for his time and effort.

    Dale


    How many Canadian MK IIs and MK IIIs have you seen with painted regimental emblems? How many do you think were wartime originals?

    I believe such exist, but most I've seen were most likely done postwar. Some were done in recent years by unscrupulous dealers.

    Adam

    Very true, but the same could be said about waterslides. They are still available, easily faked(reproduced) and aged. The German helmet collecting field has proven this, and the US M1 helmet collecting field has given painted helmets a bad reputation overall.

    I have no doubts about the Mk.III in this thread...it's a beaut!


    Last edited by Admin on Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : hit the send button too soon...oops.)


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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by Battalion Colours on Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:06 pm

    What has happened to German helmets and American helmets, is now happening to Commonwealth helmets. Helmets are easily faked and messed with. That's why studying as many original examples is very important. Commonwealth helmets, helmet nets and helmet covers are made more difficult because they were used up into the 1960s by some countries.

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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by GCR817 on Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:39 pm

    Admin wrote:No, but a very similar one. Mine has a better decal on it.

    By chance, did you know the seller?

    I believe that the seller was Richard Middleton, who specializes in German Militaria. He owns the militaria booths at all of the Antique Malls in area.

    Geoff

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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by mk1rceme on Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:35 pm

    Here is my "painted" example of the Regina Rifles Mk.III. I discussed with Geoff through PM's that I have my doubts about it, but you never know. I have some certain opinions about Mr. Middleton and I hope he did not have a hand on this one. As far as I know the seller of the latest RRR Mk.III was not Mr. Middleton unless he goes under a new ebay handle now. I now know of four helmets like this one with painted RRR flash.

    My pictures look really bright and do not do the helmet justice...I will try to get a pic in more natural light soon.







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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by GCR817 on Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:52 pm

    Admin wrote:Here is my "painted" example of the Regina Rifles Mk.III. I discussed with Geoff through PM's that I have my doubts about it, but you never know. I have some certain opinions about Mr. Middleton and I hope he did not have a hand on this one. As far as I know the seller of the latest RRR Mk.III was not Mr. Middleton unless he goes under a new ebay handle now. I now know of four helmets like this one with painted RRR flash.

    My pictures look really bright and do not do the helmet justice...I will try to get a pic in more natural light soon.






    I don't know. That badge sure looks good to me and the fact that you bought it ten years ago would make me think it predates fakers. Maybe the Reginas had an artist who painted up their helmets for them? Possibly the reinforcements after D Day wanted badged helmets too, but couldn't get decals? Really makes you wonder.

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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by Battalion Colours on Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:20 pm

    Unfortunately many WW II veterans have passed away and with them answers to our questions. Those who are still alive don't always have the memory to help us find answers to our questions. We need to search through books (particularly unit histories and memoirs), through photographic archives, museum collections, through private wartime letters and diaries. Even with this many of our questions will go unanswered. We are thirty years to late.

    One thing which has always plagued WW II nose art collectors, is trying to find out who were the nose art painters in the different units. Even though there were several artists in the 91st Bomb Group like Charles Busa, Tony Starcer is the most well known and the most prolific.

    Besides Geoff's MK III with decal, are there any other documented Regina Rifles MK IIIs we can take a look at?

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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by GCR817 on Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:41 am

    Just wanted to add that I just discovered that Dzubinski was wounded three times!

    GCR817 wrote:One of my favourites. A Mk III with textured charcoal colour overpaint and decal to the Regina Rifles. The owner's number is painted inside and some research revealed the following:

    L28213
    A/Cpl Dzubinski, J.
    B Company, Regina Rifles
    embarked 2 Jun 44 for France
    Disembarked 6 June 44 France

    How is that for a D Day provincence?





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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by mk1rceme on Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:27 pm

    Love that helmet!


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    Re: Mk III with decal to the Regina Rifles

    Post by Wouter on Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:07 pm

    Now that is a great helmet Geoff.

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