Two Tintypes of Soldiers

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    Loyer
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    Two Tintypes of Soldiers

    Post by Loyer on Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:41 pm

    Can anyone identify these two uniforms as to date and country?  One is in a gutta-percha case and the other in the standard leatherette case.  I found them in an antique store in Ontario, Canada


    I hope the original poster does not mind, but I edited this topic to include the photos.

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    Loyer
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    Re: Two Tintypes of Soldiers

    Post by Loyer on Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:30 am

    No one knows ?
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    Infanteer
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    Re: Two Tintypes of Soldiers

    Post by Infanteer on Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:43 am

    Looks to me to be US Civil War soldiers. Which side I can't say.
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    Bill
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    Re: Two Tintypes of Soldiers

    Post by Bill on Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:26 am

    Check out the lace on the cuffs. I think that they are British or militia dating from the mid to late 1800's.
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    pylon1357
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    Re: Two Tintypes of Soldiers

    Post by pylon1357 on Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:38 am

    Uniforms are really not my thing at all. Especially these older ones. I do hope one of members can and will identify these, as I am always looking to learn.


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    Re: Two Tintypes of Soldiers

    Post by Infanteer on Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:35 pm

    Bill wrote:Check out the lace on the cuffs. I think that they are British or militia dating from the mid to late 1800's.

    The Americans had lace on the cuffs of some of their uniforms as well. The hair styles and beards just don't look British to me. It would sure help if we could see some details on the buttons or belt buckle.
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    GrantRCanada
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    Re: Two Tintypes of Soldiers

    Post by GrantRCanada on Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:47 am

    If (as it appears to my eye) the tunics have shoulder cords rather than shoulder straps/epaulettes, then both appear to be the Pattern 1863 tunic, which was an exclusively Canadian pattern, not having an exact equivalent in the British Army.  The chap in the first photograph would be regular infantry (red tunic, royal blue facings and white piping) whereas the other chap appears to be a member of a Rifles battalion (rifle green tunic with red facings and black piping.)


    Last edited by GrantRCanada on Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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    GrantRCanada
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    Re: Two Tintypes of Soldiers

    Post by GrantRCanada on Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:44 am

    I posted that a bit earlier than I intended .....

    Rather than editing it right away, i thought I'd first create a personalized avatar, which in fact shows me attired in a reproduction Pattern 1863 tunic, one of my re-enactment impressions being of the 43rd (Carleton) Battalion, circa 1868-70.  

    Although there was virtually no badging in the Canadian Militia at that time distinguishing one Battalion from another - except for numbers worn of the front of the Kilmarnock-pattern forage cap, and perhaps a unit specific badge on the shako if the unit in question could afford to have such badges made for themselves - I chose that particular Battalion because the Medal Roll for the Canada General Service Medal 1866-70 lists three Privates with my surname (Rombough) who were awarded the medal with 1870 Fenian Raid clasp, all of whom were enrolled in the 43rd Battalion.  All Romboughs in Canada are in fact descended from a single UEL family in which there were four sons, so they are all related to me .... and I am fortunate enough to be the current custodian of two of the three original medals.

    The P'63 tunic was worn by the Canadian Militia throughout most of the Fenian Raids period (until the British P'1868 tunic was finally adopted by Canada some time in 1870.)

    Full-length studio photos of Canadian Militia infantry wearing the P'63 tunic -

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    Colour rendering of an Infantryman -

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    Colour rendering of a Rifleman -

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    As an aside, the period during which this tunic pattern was in use bridges the switchover from the muzzle-loaded .577 Enfield Rifle Muskets and Rifles to the newer Snider-Enfield metallic cartridge breech-loader conversion of the same firearms.  That is evident in images of militiamen of that period -  the Rifleman in the bottom picture is armed with a muzzle-loading Enfield Short Rifle, so his kit still includes a pouch for percussion caps carried on the cross-belt supporting his cartridge box.  The soldier's kit remained almost identical after the switchover to the breech-loading Snider-Enfield .... except that a sectioned tin liner in the cartridge box was removed to better accommodate the slightly bulkier 10-round packets of .577 Snider cartridges, and a cap pouch was no longer needed, which is why it is absent in the other images.  (The larger pouch seen mounted on the waistbelt over the right hip in two of the images is a "ball bag" or "expense pouch", used to hold the loose rounds when a paper-wrapped packet of ten rounds was removed from the cartridge box and opened up.)
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    GrantRCanada
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    Re: Two Tintypes of Soldiers

    Post by GrantRCanada on Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:57 pm

    Hmmmm .... I was sure I had posted a rather detailed follow-up to my response above, but it either didn't make it, or disappeared ....

    Anyway, I am wearing a Pattern 1863 tunic in my avatar photo.  The Canadian Militia wore this pattern throughout the period of the Fenian Raids (1866-1870) .... although a newer pattern (P'1870) may have been issued to some units before the end of the raids ....  The most easily recognizable features of the P'1863 tunic are the shoulder cords in lieu of epaulettes and the ornate Austrian knot surmounting the pointed facing colour cuff.

    A couple of studio portraits of Militia infantrymen.  The Sergeant on the left is wearing a shako with Canada Militia General Service badge, and the Privates on the right are wearing the standard "undress" headgear of the day, the kilmarnock-pattern forage cap.  (The Battalion number on the front of the kilmarnock is about the only unit-specific badging Canadian Militia wore back then .... unless the unit was sufficiently "well-off" to afford to have unit badges made, as such refinements were undertaken at their own expense.)

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    A hand-tinted studio portrait of a young Militia infantryman with a General Service badge on his kilmarnock rather than the usual Battalion number -

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    A colour artist's rendering of a Militia infantryman -

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    Studio portrait of a Sergeant of the 3rd Battalion, Victoria Rifles of Canada.  (He has a unit-specific shako badge.) -

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    An artist's colour rendering of a Militia Rifleman -

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    Loyer
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    Re: Two Tintypes of Soldiers

    Post by Loyer on Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:45 am

    GrantRCanada: Thank you so much for the detailed info on these two uniformed soldiers.

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    Re: Two Tintypes of Soldiers

    Post by Loyer on Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:00 am

    What would be the collector value of these tin photos ?
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    Tankermike
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    Re: Two Tintypes of Soldiers

    Post by Tankermike on Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:09 am

    Thanks for the detailed reply GrantR, the early uniforms are very interesting.

    Mike

    Loyer
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    Re: Two Tintypes of Soldiers

    Post by Loyer on Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:08 pm

    btt
    Loyer wrote:What would be the collector value of these tin photos ?

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