Factory Blackened P37 Web

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    ypres
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    Factory Blackened P37 Web

    Post by ypres on Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:43 pm

    Here are a few photos of a web set in my collection. The web is not blancoed black but factory dyed black. The service number on the back of the large pack doesn't lead to a unit ID. Looking it up leads to a MD1 number although the number starts with a B which is district 2 ? The small paper label is the remains of a shipping label I believe. I have a holster in my collection which is also factory dyed black.

    Thanks   Ypres



    Last edited by ypres on Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Bill
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    Re: Factory Blackened P37 Web

    Post by Bill on Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:48 am

    Hi Rick, Nice set of webbing. The service number is not going to be very helpful. It is listed as being Military District No 1. Blocks of numbers in each MD were alloted to other MD's for NRMA men recruited to the Active Force. The number on your webbing falls into the range for MD 1 recruits to the Active Force.
    The black webbing is likely for rifles regiments, or perhaps an armoured regiment. Several possibilities in those two MD's, including the Oxford Rifles, DHRC or Queen's Own Rifles.

    edstorey
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    Factory Died Webbing

    Post by edstorey on Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:40 am

    Actually this webbing has been died by the regiment, usually by Rifle Regiments and at times by Armoured Corps Regiments. 1937 Pattern Web was not manufactured in black during the war.

    pylon1357
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    Re: Factory Blackened P37 Web

    Post by pylon1357 on Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:31 am

    Could it not also be RCEME? Somewhere in my stash of things at my fathers place is a RCEME Veterans complete grouping. IIRC his webbing is black


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    ypres
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    Re: Factory Blackened P37 Web

    Post by ypres on Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:09 pm

    edstorey wrote:Actually this webbing has been died by the regiment, usually by Rifle Regiments and at times by Armoured Corps Regiments.   1937 Pattern Web was not manufactured in black during the war.

    Ed,

    Thanks for clarifying this. I never meant to insinuate the web was manufactured in black.... just that it was professionally dyed. The dye job on these items is very high quality. I can't see a unit dying a hundred sets of web in the back of the mess?

    I managed to find a 1901 publication on dyes .... seems quite in depth

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21224/21224-h/21224-h.htm

    I'm open to learning here, but I would think the unit would have sent the sets out to be done? If anybody knows for sure I would be interested in a reply. This set has always posed more questions than answers for me.

    It would be interesting to find the ID on the service number to make a unit connection to the web. I have seen photos of the QOR in walking out dress with black web in Holland, but have no other evidence of units in black web. Period photos would help ???

    Thanks again,

    Ypres

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    Re: Factory Blackened P37 Web

    Post by Infanteer on Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:54 pm

    Not sure why you have a hard time accepting that a unit would dye the webbing themselves. This type of activity is not unheard of. An example might be how the Canadian Airborne Regiment dyed their Tilly hats in Somalia. I find this explanation to be very plausible.

    edstorey
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    Dyed Webbing

    Post by edstorey on Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:45 am

    Whether dyed in 45 gallon drums out behind the mess or contracted to a factory; the key is recognizing that black webbing was not manufactured during the war.

    Wgrenadier
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    Re: Factory Blackened P37 Web

    Post by Wgrenadier on Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:03 pm

    Great set Ypres!!! Very Happy

    I don't know why the bayonet frog always seems to disappear from webbing sets (it must get stored separately with the bayonet scabbard).

    You might find this thread interesting...

    http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/equipment-field-gear/british-black-blackened-37ptn-webbing-113677/

    ypres
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    Re: Factory Blackened P37 Web

    Post by ypres on Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:55 pm

    Thanks for the link. I appreciate it ! Reading the posts gets to some of the points I'm trying to make. Again, I don't have the answer to this I'm just arguing a possibility...

    Thanks,


    Ypres

    48th
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    Re: Factory Blackened P37 Web

    Post by 48th on Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:36 pm

    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/WWII-Original-Unissued-British-Commonwealth-Large-Pack-L-Strap-Set-Blanco-KG3-/261627090439?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cea309607


    I once read in David Gordon's book or web site that Australia dyed a decent number of P37 webbing sets during WWII.
    I my self am not aware of Canada dying any sets.

    edstorey
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    Web Colours

    Post by edstorey on Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:41 am

    One detail that I have not discovered any information on is why the colour of 1937 Pattern Web was not changed from the light khaki drill colour to olive green. Mills manufactured dark green/black 1908 Pattern Web for the Irish in the 1930s so the technology was available. During the war it was not uncommon for the web to be blancoed green and contemporary camouflage manuals discuss changing the colour of the web yet the colour never changed; even in the 1950s when it was again manufactured in Canada. Even the Airforce got blue/grey webbing; so there has to be a reason why the colour change was not made.

    South Africa was manufacturing some green webbing during the war, so consistency of colour across the Commonwealth must not have been the issue.

    Wgrenadier
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    Re: Factory Blackened P37 Web

    Post by Wgrenadier on Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:10 pm

    edstorey wrote:One detail that I have not discovered any information on is why the colour of 1937 Pattern Web was not changed from the light khaki drill colour to olive green.   Mills manufactured dark green/black 1908 Pattern Web for the Irish in the 1930s so the technology was available.   During the war it was not uncommon for the web to be blancoed green and contemporary camouflage manuals discuss changing the colour of the web yet the colour never changed; even in the 1950s when it was again manufactured in Canada.  Even the Airforce got blue/grey webbing; so there has to be a reason why the colour change was not made.  

    South Africa was manufacturing some green webbing during the war, so consistency of colour across the Commonwealth must not have been the issue.

    It would be more difficult to blanco webbing to a lighter shade than the reverse, I imagine this is why they didn't change. Some of the early 1940 Canadian webbing I have seen was made in an ugly greenish shade. Most of the South African webbing I have seen is a pale yellowish khaki, though the common 1941 Lewis Gun pouches were an odd shade of green. Australia and India began manufacturing green webbing intermittently by the end of the war too. The 1923 Irish Pattern 1908 contract produced a dark green webbing (what a shame it was all dyed to black).

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