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    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION]

    NatetheGR8
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    Post by NatetheGR8 Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:07 pm

    Hey everyone,

    In a lot of the pictures I have seen of Canadian troops wearing M1 helmets (from the 50s-60s) they are using a two-tone helmet netting similar to the ones used on the Mk.II.

    My question is, are these the same helmet nets as used on the MK.II's or are they a different size/cut? I tried putting my own Mk.II two-tone helmet net that I have on my U.S Vietnam M1 and it is not even close to fitting. Is it simply because i need to reaallllyyy stretch it, or, it is not the correct netting to begin with?

    Any help would be must appreciated!

    Cheers!

    P.S, here are some reference pictures:

    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] E0107810
    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Screen12
    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Screen13
    edstorey
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    Post by edstorey Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:34 pm

    You have to stretch the net in order for to fit it over a M1 Helmet.

    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Img_8310

    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Us_m1_12
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    Post by NatetheGR8 Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:25 pm

    edstorey wrote:You have to stretch the net in order for to fit it over a M1 Helmet.

    Was there a particular way you went about that? Did you soak it in water first to try to loosen it up or did you just muscle through it?

    Mine measures 14"x14" with rounded sides. Don't know if that is standard size, but it just seems to fall out of place whenever I try to put it on.
    edstorey
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    Post by edstorey Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:22 pm

    I just muscled through as all of my nets seem to be quite pliable.   Does yours look like one of these two examples?

    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Canadi13

    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Canadi12
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    Post by NatetheGR8 Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:37 pm

    edstorey wrote:I just muscled through as all of my nets seem to be quite pliable.   Does yours look like one of these two examples?

    It definitely looks like the 1st picture in regards to it's shape/size.

    I've been able to 'muscle' my net on this far for now. Still won't stay in place for very long though, even with the liner on. I've found it helps to use a helmet band to keep it together while I'm stretching it out.

    Cheers!


    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Net_st10
    edstorey
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    Post by edstorey Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:33 pm

    Yup, you got it.  The net will stretch a bit more so that you can get the drawstring under the lip of the M1 shell.   Back in the 1990s I even managed to stretch one for wear on my issue PASGT.

    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Pasgt_10
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    Post by NatetheGR8 Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:36 am

    edstorey wrote:Yup, you got it.  The net will stretch a bit more so that you can get the drawstring under the lip of the M1 shell.   Back in the 1990s I even managed to stretch one for wear on my issue PASGT.

    Oh wow that is cool. Thank you for your help.

    Just one last question. Before we started making our own M1's, were all of the original M1's we bought from the U.S fixed-bale? From what I can garner we purchased around 200,000 in 42'/43'. If that is correct than that would mean they were all fixed-bale right?

    Cheers!
    edstorey
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    Post by edstorey Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:53 am

    Tin Lids states that R.J. Stampings in Montreal produced 1.8 million shells for the U.S. Military and there are no particular markings to distinguish them from the bodies manufactured in the U.S.; so just to clear up your first remark - Canada did not manufacture our own M1s, we bought them from the U.S.   Thanks to Roger Lucy, the author of Tin Lids, I started looking seriously at M1 Helmets over 20 years ago and have managed to collect a number of variations in both the helmet shells and liners.

    While the Canadian military certainly began in 1960 reissuing the M1 Helmets purchased during the war, Canada must have been purchasing additional M1 helmets as during my 34 years in the military saw every imaginable configuration of SWW and post-war M1 helmet being used.   While in the Infantry Reserves in 1979, one day in the field, we received a bag of new Type 1 helmet chinstraps to attach to our helmets.   Out came the pocket knives and everyone in the section proceeded cut the old chinstraps from their fixed-bale helmets - I managed to save a handful of chinstraps that day.   Even by 1999 I was still finding guys in my Reg Force unit who were using unaltered wartime M1s.

    Here are a few helmet examples as I have received them.

    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Img_9410    This one has a 1976 dated Type I Ground Troops Liner.

    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Us_m1_13   This one has a St Clair liner.

    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Us_m1_14   This one has a Hawley Liner.
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    Post by NatetheGR8 Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:11 pm

    edstorey wrote:Tin Lids states that R.J. Stampings in Montreal produced 1.8 million shells for the U.S. Military and there are no particular markings to distinguish them from the bodies manufactured in the U.S.; so just to clear up your first remark - Canada did not manufacture our own M1s, we bought them from the U.S.   Thanks to Roger Lucy, the author of Tin Lids, I started looking seriously at M1 Helmets over 20 years ago and have managed to collect a number of variations in both the helmet shells and liners.

    While the Canadian military certainly began in 1960 reissuing the M1 Helmets purchased during the war, Canada must have been purchasing additional M1 helmets as during my 34 years in the military saw every imaginable configuration of SWW and post-war M1 helmet being used.   While in the Infantry Reserves in 1979, one day in the field, we received a bag of new Type 1 helmet chinstraps to attach to our helmets.   Out came the pocket knives and everyone in the section proceeded cut the old chinstraps from their fixed-bale helmets - I managed to save a handful of chinstraps that day.   Even by 1999 I was still finding guys in my Reg Force unit who were using unaltered wartime M1s.

    Oh ok I did not know that, I guess I need to add a fixed-bale M1 to an ever-growing list :). I am in a Cold War reenacting group and am trying to get a late 1950s, early 1960s impression going.

    Thank you again for all your help.

    All the best!
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    Post by M.E.E. Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:26 am

    Removed information until properly sourced.


    Last edited by M.E.E. on Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:38 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : sourcing)
    edstorey
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    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Empty Helmet Net Sizes

    Post by edstorey Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:06 pm

    Where are you getting this information from? Specifically that the larger nets were manufactured for the Mk III and M1?
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    Post by M.E.E. Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:25 pm

    edstorey wrote:Where are you getting this information from?   Specifically that the larger nets were manufactured for the Mk III and M1?

    There is a post on another major forum that is all about British and Canadian nets, it is 27 pages long and includes almost all the major commonwealth helmet authors information.  Some of it is observational such as no 18X18 in woven nets and how you will almost never find woven nets on MkIII helmets.  It has been concluded that the there was no evidence of 18X18 prior to the release of the MkIII. It is a very good post and well worth the read.   *edit also check out Daniele Piselli s book MkII Helmets that has a great section on helmet nets.

    Just a few of my nets.
    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Helmet10
    edstorey
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    Post by edstorey Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:48 pm

    So basically you are just quoting from another forum site.   Did that 27 page post link to any primary documentation?   Are these nets in the attached photographs not woven?   And finally, what is the ISBN of the Piscelli book?

    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Dscn1410

    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Dscn1510

    Canadian M1 Two-Tone Netting [QUESTION] Dscn1810
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    Post by M.E.E. Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:41 am

    I have removed the first information until I can properly source, I am currently talking with several collectors of helmet nets about sources. One source seems to be Australian crating and tagging, with crates and tags changing from 16X16 to 18X18 at the same time that the MkIII came out but I do not have pictures of that information. Isbn for the book is 979-12-200-6648-8.
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    Post by edstorey Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:23 pm

    Ordnance crates and tags are certainly one good source as would be Stores Catalogue listings. Getting into the weeds to establish who was manufacturing nets, what amounts were ordered and when the contracts were let would at least help establish a baseline. Currently all that is available are surviving examples and period photographs of the nets in use. Thank you for the ISBN.

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