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    Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification?

    SCMuseum
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    Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification? Empty Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification?

    Post by SCMuseum on Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:32 pm

    Hello,
    I've been going through a collection of military headgear and identifying the shells and liners to the best of my ability. I've come across this liner that I can't identify in the slightest. It is currently in a Canadian steel mark II 1942 shell produced by Canadian Motor Lamp Co. of Windsor. The shell still has the bales but no chinstrap and is in great condition, possibly never saw much combat.

    The liner is not like any one I've come across or can find online. I have been unable to identify the manufacturer's stamp, though it looks super familiar. It's not an original liner, but beyond that I'm stumped. This liner has its own bales and a chinstrap. Instead of rubber bumpers it has steel pressure ones. I've attached some images of the liner below.

    Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification? Scm_2010

    Any help identifying it would be much appreciated!


    Last edited by SCMuseum on Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : New information.)
    pylon1357
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    Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification? Empty Re: Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification?

    Post by pylon1357 on Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:01 am

    Looks to me to be a US WWI era Brodie Helmet liner.


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    37patt
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    Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification? Empty Liner ID

    Post by 37patt on Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:01 pm

    It's a liner from an American M1917A1 helmet.

    It would normally be in a refurbished British WWI MkI helmet shell or a US manufactured shell from early in WWII.
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    Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification? Empty Re: Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification?

    Post by SCMuseum on Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:53 am

    The M1917A1 liner looks to be the winner. I was focusing on Canadian or British items when I should have been looking south of the border. I've been told the stamps on the liner are from the United States Army Ordnance Corps so that explains why they look familiar but I couldn't place it, we don't have much beyond Canadian and British military items in our collection.

    How the liner ended up in a Canadian shell is a bit odd. Probably someone completing a 'set' or working with surplus. The shell at least appears to have come from the local Emergency Services Department, Cold War era, which would follow the surplus possibility as I'm sure much of their stock was made up of that. It would also explain the relatively good condition of the shell and liner.

    Thanks for the help!
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    Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification? Empty Canadian Mk II Helmet with US M1917A1 Liner

    Post by edstorey on Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:16 pm

    The Canadian Mk II Helmet with US M1917A1 Liner is is post-SWW Canadian Civil Defence combination which if I remember correctly was documented in Tin Lids.
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    Post by SCMuseum on Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:26 pm

    edstorey wrote:The Canadian Mk II Helmet with US M1917A1 Liner is is post-SWW Canadian Civil Defence combination which if I remember correctly was documented in Tin Lids.

    Interesting......that would certainly explain some things!
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    Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification? Empty References

    Post by edstorey on Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:07 pm

    I have stopped posting on forums as very little of what is discussed is new, and most of what is discussed has already been documented in the past 20 years. Sadly, no-one bought the references or bothered to read them so the knowledge is still a mystery to most. I would have thought that as a museum the first question would have been what is the ISBN number of the book and is it still available - so I see nothing has changed.
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    Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification? Empty Re: Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification?

    Post by SCMuseum on Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:36 pm

    edstorey wrote:I have stopped posting on forums as very little of what is discussed is new, and most of what is discussed has already been documented in the past 20 years.   Sadly, no-one bought the references or bothered to read them so the knowledge is still a mystery to most.   I would have thought that as a museum the first question would have been what is the ISBN number of the book and is it still available - so I see nothing has changed.

    I can understand that feeling. While there are some really amazing collector sites and forums out there that are a fount of knowledge, unique items such as this shell and liner combination may not be common knowledge. The first thing I did after reading your post was to look up Tin Lids both out of curiosity and for potential future use. We have a relatively small collection of military helmets, less than two dozen including a handful of international ones, but who knows what will show up in the future. Niche books such as these usually are a limited run and depending on the level of publishing don't have ISBN numbers so we often have to employ some investigation skills.

    In case others are looking for a copy I was lucky enough to find several copies on AbeBooks, Amazon, eBay, and possibly available through order at our local library which sadly doesn't have a copy of its own. If I can get approval to spend the money, it's all about budgets, it would make a valuable addition to our reference collection.

    Are there any other recommendations for other books that would go into this level of detail about Canadian, and to a lesser extent older British, military items? General information can tend to be found online but we're always looking for resources such as Tin Lids that go into specifics around history and identification.

    Thanks again for your help!

    P.S. German helmet collectors seem to be really passionate about their hobby. I had to i.d. a couple items and the level of detail on some sites was crazy.

    P.P.S. Service Publications, the publisher of Tin Lids, has a few other books that would fall into the category I was looking for. Tin Lids can also be purchased from them directly!


    Last edited by SCMuseum on Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added P.P.S.)
    SCMuseum
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    Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification? Empty Re: Canadian Steel Mark II Liner Identification?

    Post by SCMuseum Today at 3:16 pm

    Update Time:

    The local library branch was able to order a copy of Tin Lids in for me. It took some time, looking back it's been about a month, as it had to come all the way from Toronto and then I had to get a chance too look at it.

    In looking through, I wasn't able to definitively prove this combination of shell and liner were issued together, but page 17 did give some information that at least makes it plausible they weren't just jammed together by a collector. Surplus (Canadian) Helmet, Steel, Mark II and WWII US M1917A1 McCord Civil Defence Helmets were issued to the Canadian Civil Defence following its formation in 1949. This would likely explain how the shell and liner ended up together. While not necessarily standard issue, it wouldn't be beyond the realm of imagination for the parts to be changed around based on preference or available parts for repairs. This information isn't cited, but the author is certainly a credible source.

    Works for me, hopefully this helps someone in the future!

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